Establishing a Speaking Fee and Offers That Feel Aligned with Your Goals

00:00:00 – Alyssa Zajdel 

A lot of the mentors I’ve talked to, both in sports py and locally, they’re kind of in the old school money mindset. I’ve had people make comments of like, oh, wow, you’re lucky people are even paying you. Or I’ve had mentors say, like, oh, I just charge my regular rate. Or oh, I have like one mentor I was recently talking to said, oh, I charge just a flat rate, 175. No matter if it’s two hours or what, you know this is my hobby, right? 

00:00:30 – Linzy Bonham 

Welcome to Money Skills for Therapists, the podcast that helps therapists and health practitioners in private practice go from money confusion and shame to calm clarity and confidence with their finances. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by numbers or avoided looking at your business money, you’re in the right place. I’m Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of Money Skills for Therapists. Before we jump in, check out my free on demand masterclass. You’ll find the link in the show notes or@moneynutsandbolts.com under masterclass. It’s the best first step to finally feeling empowered with money in your private practice. Let’s get started. Hello and welcome back to the podcast. Today’s guest is Alyssa Zadel. She is a graduate of the Money Skills for Therapist course. And today Alyssa and I have a coaching episode about pricing your offers when you are starting to expand. So, Alyssa is a sports psychologist. She has been getting asks from her community to speak and pricing has been a big challenge. So today we talk about different ways to think about pricing your offers. We talk about how to start to get a sense of what the market is willing to pay for what you do and what not to do in terms of how you price your offers. Alyssa has so much to offer the world and it’s very exciting that she’s been getting these asks for these talks. So today we talk about how do you actually price something that is not one on one therapy but is still in your therapeutic expertise? Here is my coaching episode with Alyssa Zadel. So, Alyssa, welcome to the podcast. 

00:02:14 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Thank you so much. I am so excited to be here. I’m an avid listener of your podcast. I think I’ve listened to literally every single episode, minus the two that I’m behind on. 

00:02:23 – Linzy Bonham 

Right. Beautiful. I’m really, really, really happy to have you here today. So, Alyssa, tell me about what you want to dig in during our time together today. 

00:02:33 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah. Yeah. So I am a sports psychologist based out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I started my practice almost three years ago. It’s a solo practice, although I want to move it into group practice land, which is a whole other thing. But I feel good about my like one on one work that I do. I went through your money skills for therapist course. I feel good about the rates that I charge and I even, I was really proud of myself. Even increased my rates this year, which was hard, but I did it and nothing bad happened. 

00:03:10 – Linzy Bonham 

There you go. 

00:03:11 – Alyssa Zajdel 

So that was really great. So the thing that though has been weighing on me is I do get reach outs from groups. So like teams or I had a university reach out to me to do a keynote speaking event for their athletes. And eventually as I grow my business, I want to actually focus on marketing this, but just not quite there yet. But what has been so hard is trying to figure out pricing for these opportunities as they come up. And I think there’s two sides of that. One is just like the practicality of when I went through your course and listening to other podcasts and stuff. It’s very clear of like, okay, you take your max capacity for the week of like what you want your caseload to be, you figure out your personal expenses, you do math to figure out a number. But with these like one off situations, it’s harder to know like what’s going to be worth my time. And yeah, because you don’t know when they’re going to come up, especially because I’m not actively marketing them. And also each one is slightly different too. So it’s not like the one hour therapy container that pricing is for the one on one time. So yeah, so I think it’s just like the practical aspect but then the mindset aspect. I’ve had some bad experiences already with just trying out different numbers and talking to mentors and different things and it’s just been, it’s a lot. So yeah, this has definitely been weighing on me for sure. 

00:04:48 – Linzy Bonham 

Certainly. Yeah. And tell me a little bit about the bad experiences because I want to get partly what I want to get is a sense of kind of the market, so to speak, for you know, what you’re offering. Tell me about what’s happened so far. 

00:04:59 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, so when I first moved back, started my practice, so I’m part of the figure skating community. That’s my personal sport. I’m still involved locally and we have synchro teams and they wanted to bring me in and going into that I didn’t want to do it for free because I especially being part of the club, I was like this could easily snowball into. They’re Going to expect me to do stuff for free forever. And I also didn’t want to do it for free because a lot like the age demographic they wanted me to come speak to is not the age demographic that I see one on one. So it’s not even like there’s a potential marketing or directly, I guess marketing. So I really did think hard about this and I thought, okay, if my regular rate is 200 an hour and they. I don’t know, maybe I do. I mean, I know myself, I’m going to do way more than an hour of prep. But I’ll charge them for an hour of prep. 

00:05:57 – Linzy Bonham 

Okay, yes. 

00:05:58 – Alyssa Zajdel 

And then I’ll make it kind of a package and offer a 30 minute session with the coaches either before or after to get a sense, a better sense of like, okay, either, you know, what do you want this to be? Or what can you do from here on? And they ghosted me after I gave him a number of like 550 or something. I forget the specifics, but they ghosted me. And then I heard through the grapevine that they were very disappointed and upset that I charge. Like I charged them that. Cause I, maybe they were trying to get it for free. I’m not sure. So then I had another group reach out a dance studio. And when I was talking to them, they really caught me off guard. I should have been prepared for what do you charge? But I wasn’t. And so I ended up saying something like, oh, well, my regular rate is 200 an hour, but I typically charge more for groups because of X, Y and Z. And then I sent them an email after saying, okay, here’s what a quote would be. I just kind of came up with a rate randomly, I guess. And they were like, what? I thought you said it was $200. And so then I was like, okay, well yeah, that was my bad. I’ll do it for $200. But then they like last minute canceled too. So that was a whole thing. And then one other one was I was invited to do public speaking, like at this university for 300 student athletes. They asked me what’s my rate for public speaking? I said 350. Again, not quite sure exactly where that number came from, but I was like, the 500, that was too high, the whatever. So. And then they gave me a weird look and they were like, well, okay, but we’ll do you better because you’re probably gonna have some prep and stuff. So they’re like, we’ll pay you a thousand. So I was like, oh my God. Then I’m like. And so it’s just been so hard. And I. I’ve talked to mentors, and I think a lot of the mentors I’ve talked to, both in sports, psych and locally, they’re kind of in the old school money mindset. I’ve had people make comments of like, oh, wow, you’re lucky people are even paying you. Or I’ve had mentors say, like, oh, I just charge my regular rate. Or, oh, I have like, one mentor I was recently talking to said, oh, I charge just a flat rate, 175, no matter if it’s two hours or what. You know, this is my hobby. And I’m like, okay. But like. And I’m transitioning to being the sole provider in my family, too. So I’m also just not in a place to just be giving out these services for free. I mean, eventually, as I grow my business and, you know, that could be part of the plan because I do want to serve a lot of people or like, you know, people who really need these services. But at least for now, I feel like I need to charge something that people will pay because that’s the problem I’m having. Like, people aren’t. And maybe it’s just a fact of they’re reaching out to me rather than me actually marketing and finding the people who I’m trying, like, who could pay this money. But yeah, so that’s kind of. That’s. That’s all of it. 

00:09:10 – Linzy Bonham 

Yes. Okay. Okay, that’s. That is great context because the first thing that sticks out to me quite a bit is there is a world of difference between these kind of, like, hobby clubs, you know, who are approaching you, and a university. Right. And so part of this is thinking about the customer, so to speak, like, who is the customer? And you would also want to think about who’s the customer you want to speak to. Right. Like, are you passionate about speaking to small clubs? And I’m, you know, I’m thinking about my own involvement. I’ve just done a Learn to row program. Right. So involved in a rowing club. And it’s like, small and there’s not a lot of money. And I’m sure, like, a lot of the members there do things for very little money or for free. Right. Like, it’s like money is not one of the currencies that’s really exchanged there. Right. Like, probably like goodwill and support, and that’s more of like the currency that’s circulating amongst that group of people. But there isn’t a lot of Money circulating universities are a different story. Right. Universities have money. At least for now they do, politics aside. Right. And so something that I’m curious about is, as you think about speaking, who do you want to speak to? Like, if you think about a speaking engagement, that would be exciting for you and that you would be really proud of, and that would really get, like, you know, your wheels turning in terms of really wanting to do a great job. Who would that audience be? 

00:10:28 – Alyssa Zajdel 

That is a good question. I mean, what first comes to mind is the, like, the big talk I did for the university. So, like, my training has been in college counseling centers, and then I was in collegiate athletics before starting my private practice. So I love working with college students. And I was actually surprised with myself that speaking to 300 people, like, that was actually really fun. And so I’d love to do more stuff like that in the future. But yeah, I guess that. And probably more. More of the elite athletes, at least when it’s me, I know I want to, like, bring on other people. I have a student coming on and like, maybe her lane could be more hobby clubs, because then she’s getting hours and I can kind of help her coach and she’ll get our name out there. But I also had. And this one went over a little bit better, I think. Although I haven’t heard back from them. A local. So I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. There is the Pettit National Ice center, which is US speed skating training site. And so some of their really elite speed skaters, that group reached out to me and I did try a different strategy with them. I did say, like, okay, I’m not gonna. Like, I don’t necessarily give a quote on the intro call because I’m trying to figure out exactly what the needs are and what’s gonna be most helpful. But then I did give a quote of 350 again. Cause who knows why? And they were like, okay, that might be doable. We’ll get back to you. So I guess those speed skaters, though, would be also like the group of people that I would like to speak to. 

00:12:05 – Linzy Bonham 

And I’m curious about the kind of economics of, you know, those kinds of elite athletes. Is there money in those training centers? Like, are they funded? Yeah. What’s the financial situation there? 

00:12:17 – Alyssa Zajdel 

That’s confusing. I’m not sure. 

00:12:19 – Linzy Bonham 

Okay. 

00:12:20 – Alyssa Zajdel 

I mean, I think like, in figure skating or speed skating, they’re expensive sports, so families, the people who are attracted to them are people who tend to have more money. But then it’s interesting from the organizational level, like, when I Was talking to this, the speed skating person, head manager. I don’t know what they are, but they are kind of like, yeah, we don’t really have a budget. We’re looking into getting funding. The families haven’t said anything about too much expenses, but I don’t know because that’s the other part too is like when you’re going into teams like that, it’s like, okay, will the organization be paying, will the cost be like the, the members pay $20 or however much per thing? So it’s confusing too because there’s different payment structures as well. 

00:13:07 – Linzy Bonham 

Yeah. You’re not walking into a set model of how things are done. It’s like every group is going to do things a little bit differently. Okay. 

00:13:15 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah. 

00:13:15 – Linzy Bonham 

So I’m hearing there is passion around college students, like the institutions. Do you also have passion around the elite athletes? 

00:13:24 – Alyssa Zajdel 

I think so, yeah. 

00:13:24 – Linzy Bonham 

Okay. 

00:13:26 – Alyssa Zajdel 

I think so. I think so. I mean, like in some ways it’s. There just feels like there’s more pressure. 

00:13:33 – Linzy Bonham 

Yeah. 

00:13:33 – Alyssa Zajdel 

And that’s, I think part of the mental side of this too, or the mindset side is, you know, in one on one therapy, it’s like, okay, yes, I, and Now I charge $205 with my rate increase I was talking about earlier, but I can see like, okay, yes, I am making an impact. People’s lives are getting better. And I think what’s been harder for me with these kind of one off things is it feels like a lot of pressure to. And I know this is not what I should be doing, but it feels like I need to put a lot of pressure to prove myself or to change lives in like a 45 minute talk. But then you leave and then you don’t really know exactly the impact. So I think that’s part of like the mindset side too. Of like, Is this worth 350 or is this worth a thousand? I’m not sure. They don’t think so. It seems so that leads me to feel less confident saying what my rate is and then that’s just not good. When we’re not confident saying what our rate is. 

00:14:30 – Linzy Bonham 

Yes. Yeah, certainly. Yeah, yeah. Then we’re undermining ourself before they’ve even had a chance to have their own emotional reaction. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I’m hearing there is a lot of pressure that you’re putting on yourself. Something that I would think about is like, what are they looking for these different groups when they’re looking for somebody to come in, you know, like, what are their goals? Why are they paying for these talks or why are they seeking out these talks? I suspect there might be different goals or maybe not, I’m not exactly sure. But as you’re thinking about this, it is a different audience than the one to one people. Your customers are actually the organization and making sure you’re helping the organization hit their goals. That’s something that I would be curious about. Even just as you’re thinking about building out this part of your business is what are their goals when a university is bringing you in? What are they trying to accomplish? Are they trying to entertain their students? Do they have a certain problem they’re actually trying to solve? Are they just giving them a variety of perspectives and viewpoints? What is the role that you are playing? Because that I think could also help you to focus on what are you actually putting into that talk to make sure that you are helping them achieve those goals? Because the customers are not actually the listeners of the talk. The people you have to actually show that you have delivered value are whoever is organizing that, like the institution. Right? 

00:15:53 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah. 

00:15:53 – Linzy Bonham 

So I’m thinking about that piece. Another curiosity that I’m having here as we’re thinking about pricing is how this fits into your business. Is this an area that you want to move towards, like being a public speaker, having big stages, being a thought leader in your space? Is that part of the goal? Is this marketing for your practice as well or just marketing for your practice? How does this fit into your bigger plans for your business? 

00:16:18 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, that’s a great question. Part of me wants me like, oh yeah, let’s do more public speaking, because I liked that. But also then a lot of imposter syndrome comes up, especially in the sports psychology niche. It sometimes feels like there’s an in group and out group. And my path was a little less traditional and I don’t know. So it just brings up like, who am I to be a thought leader in sports psychology when there’s so many other people that know way more than I do. But I think, I guess where the group services fit in is just another revenue stream, another way to get our services out there. And it really does. It can impact a lot more people than the one on one. And I think too I just one of my passions or part of my vision, I guess for the work that I do is just to normalize mental health and normalize especially emotions. Because the sport culture is very based on like Eurocentric, patriarchal, capitalistic values and this like you have to suck it up or just get over it. And so trying to help athletes and just kind of change the culture in general. Make a little dent, I guess in the culture of athletics in general that of course you’re going to have feelings and that’s okay and you can get help. You don’t have to do things on your own. And so I see the benefit of doing like either the large public speaking or the group services is working towards that mission in a larger way. And also coaches are sitting in on those talks too. Right. Because a lot of times the one on one work is like, well, you have a durable coach, but I’m not, the coach is not my client. And so how do we, you know, work through this? And I think the organizers are kind of on that page. Although I think in some ways kind of going to what you were saying of like, what are the organizers goals? I think sometimes because mental health is a scary topic in athletics for the reasons I was saying earlier, even when I was working in college, there’s kind of this like, okay, come in, talk to people and just fix it. We’re having this issue, athletes are having mental health issues, come in and fix it. And so a lot of it is doing education about like, okay, one 30 minute talk with an athlete is not going to fix their mental health issues or the performance anxiety or their lack of dedication. So I think that adds to the pressure. Cause that’s part of their, like, they are just not. They don’t know enough to know what the scope of what me coming in and doing a talk is. 

00:18:58 – Linzy Bonham 

Right? Yes. Okay. Yeah. And this is where you were mentioning earlier, right? Now these have all been folks reaching out to you. They’re like, you do sports psychology. Our people have feelings, we feel weird about it. We don’t know what to do. Can you come in? And then you’re also being contacted within that by a whole range of people with a whole range of ideas of what is affordable, what is not. Totally different budgets. So you’re getting this whole kind of smorgasbord of people reaching out to you, which makes sense that it’s difficult to figure out what to sell to them and what they’re willing to pay. Because there’s almost nothing unifying between these groups except for the fact, like sports, that’s the only unifying thing here. 

00:19:33 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yep. 

00:19:33 – Linzy Bonham 

Right. So I’m thinking if you were going to sell something where you actually market it, it’s on your website. These are the talks that I offer. There’s this kind of talk, you know, or this kind of series I can do. What would you want to offer that Would really be exciting for you, worth your time and energy. Like you can charge enough that it’s not going to be detracting from what you can make seeing folks one on one because you have a great fee. So you’re at a point where you could just see folks one on one and you could see a few more folks and make some more money. But this is also calling your attention. So we want to make sure it doesn’t undermine what you can earn just doing the work you’re already great at with one on ones. What would you want to talk to folks about? If you could actually set the topic, the tone, or even just the container of what kind of talks do you want to do? Are they one hour talks? Is it an afternoon? Is it a series? 

00:20:24 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Probably what I’ve mostly done is one hour talks. So that feels like the comfortable option. And that’s the thing that I guess has I’ve been thinking about with the pricing too is I already have a bunch of workshops prepared and I thought about, okay, should I put something on my website saying like these are the options and here’s the rate for if you just want a one hour preset talk, obviously slightly tweaking it in tone or I don’t know, whatever to whatever group and then maybe having an option of like. But if you want something custom, like here’s a different pricing. Because I do like the idea of doing something a little more custom, ongoing, like really actually making change. Because I think that’s where the limit of. Not that it’s not helpful to do a one off workshop, but I think sometimes that can come off. Like organizations can be like, oh, we’re just checking the box or you know, is it really making lasting changes? But I find going in, and especially I have all these talks I do enjoy. Part of why I like sports psychology is I love teaching. So this is like a fun way of teaching people. Probably maybe a mix, I guess of just like one off things, but then also maybe having like one or two organizations that I’m more involved with for longer term. 

00:21:52 – Linzy Bonham 

Yeah. Because I’m thinking you need to sell something right now. You have people asking you for random things. They have no idea what kind of price range they’re even talking about. They probably don’t even know really what they’re asking you for. Because as you say, they’re asking you. They’re hoping you’re going to solve this huge issue in 30 minutes, which isn’t even possible. Right. And so what I’m starting to visualize as we’re talking is like a page on your website where you’re like, you know, like public speaking or like group events where you can actually lay out. These are the topics that I cover. This is the pricing for a one hour workshop. Contact me for custom ongoing support available. But also you have to sell them. Like, what do they get? You know, if I bring you in to my university to work with my athletes, what are the results I’m going to get? Right. Like, how is that going to help me as say the coordinator who’s trying to serve our athletes? How is that going to help us accomplish something? What can we accomplish by bringing you in? Right. Because otherwise you’re almost having this disconnect of like they don’t really know what they’re looking for. You don’t really know what they’re looking for. You have no idea what kind of budget that you’re working with. Do they have $5 in their bank account or 5 million? Who knows? Right. And so it makes a lot of sense that you’re having these awkward misses because there’s just no clarity between the two of you of what even a starting point would be. 

00:23:13 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, yeah, totally. 

00:23:15 – Linzy Bonham 

What do you think about that idea of actually laying out some offers that you could then use as a starting point to have conversations with people? 

00:23:22 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, I really like that idea because I think that’s. I’ve even just seen that in my solo. I’ve got my sales page, I have my numbers in many different places. 

00:23:35 – Linzy Bonham 

Totally. 

00:23:35 – Alyssa Zajdel 

And so when people are contacting me, they already have a sense of. Yeah. What they’re getting, what the price is. I don’t have to guess if it fits for them. They’ve already self selected. So I think that would be great. Like, because then if I did have random reach outs, I could direct them to a page, they could see what the options are and then that would prompt them to think a little bit more about what they want. Because you’re right. Like it is this weird conversation where they don’t know what they want. I’m trying to figure out what they want and it’s just not a helpful conversation. 

00:24:08 – Linzy Bonham 

No, no, it’s not. And you might not at all be a fit in terms of what you actually would be willing to work for and what they’re able to pay. You just might not be a fit from the very beginning and no amount of communication will change that. Right. If they, if they think they’re going to pay you $75, the conversation’s just not even worth it because your time is Worth so much more than that. Yeah. And then as we’re thinking about pricing, something that I’m thinking about is having clarity too on say group size. You know, like when you give a Talk, if there’s 300 people in the room, it makes a lot of sense that they would pay you $1,000. It’s like $30 a person. Whereas if it’s a smaller group, do you want to think about having some pricing tiers for different group sizes as a way of also laying out? Because you don’t want to say that you charge $500 for talk and show up to a room with a thousand people in it. You would be disappointed. 

00:24:55 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah. 

00:24:56 – Linzy Bonham 

So getting really clear for you on even just some starting points on how you determine pricing as you’re talking to a group, where are you starting? What are the modifiers? If they want to make it a two hour talk instead of one, you probably wouldn’t charge double for that. Or maybe you would, but having that starting point because right now it’s kind of like you’re starting an empty space. So as you think about that talk you did for the university, you got paid $1,000 to talk for an hour. How did that feel in terms of the value of your time if you think about the earnings for that? 

00:25:27 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, probably not great. Okay. 

00:25:30 – Linzy Bonham 

Okay, tell me about that. 

00:25:31 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Just in the sense that I spent and this is also my own perfectionism and you know, as we were saying, the pressure I put on myself and all that kind of stuff, I spent a lot of time putting that talk together. I do think it, it was a really good talk, it was very well received. So I spent a lot of time. But it’s like, but now I have this talk and I have already repurposed it in slight for slightly other things. So that also too is I guess confusing with the pricing of. It’s the first time I do a presentation, there’s going to be more prep. But if I could reuse that, do I really need to get paid for all that initial prep? Especially if I go above and beyond and spend too much time on it? 

00:26:18 – Linzy Bonham 

Well, and that’s where you can get more into value based pricing rather than commodity based pricing. Right. So commodity based pricing is what we’re used to thinking about as therapists because it’s like a clear exchange. It’s like I give you one hour of my time, you give me $205, I give you two hours of my time, you give me double that. Right. When you’re getting into speaking for groups and that kind of scaled offer, value based pricing is a far more helpful model to work with, which is just what is it worth for them? What are they willing to pay for the result they’re going to get? Right. And so it’s moving out of your time because it’s true, you could go super perfectionist and you could spend 20 hours getting ready for a one hour talk and it would be pretty much impossible for somebody to pay you enough money to make that worth it. Right. But in terms of their side of the equation, again, they’re thinking they’re gonna have certain goals in mind. Right. If you help them fulfill that goal, if you help their athletes feel far more inspired, if you open up more conversations between athletes and coaches or between the athletes themselves, if you start to like shift their culture so it becomes more supportive, athletes are able to like get the help they need. What is that worth to them? And there’s always going to be this like, what is it intangibly worth and what is their actual budget? We know with clients, if we think about clients that we’ve worked with, where we’ve profoundly changed their lives, that might be worth $100,000 to them. It doesn’t mean they have $100,000 to pay us. Right? So there’s always this middle between the value to them and then their budgetary realities. Because money is tangible, there’s a limit on it at some point. But yeah, thinking about the value, especially to a large organization like that, if you think in the scheme of their budget, of the training dollars that they have available to bring in people like this, would it be worth $2,000 for them to have 300 other athletes have a conversation that starts to really shift their culture, Right? Or if you did some ongoing work, if you did a series of talks over the course of three months, maybe that’s worth $8,000 or $10,000 to them because of the tangible results in their athletes performance, which is ultimately what their, their goal is, I think. Right. Is to have the best performing athletes that they can. How does that sit with you? The idea of basing it on value rather than your time? 

00:28:25 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, I think that is a much better way to think of it. But then I’m also like, but then how do I know what the value is? 

00:28:33 – Linzy Bonham 

Right? 

00:28:33 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Because even I guess another reason why the thousand dollars didn’t sit well is because, okay, if my kind of quote was 350 and they were like, we’ll do a thousand, I’m like, okay, well they probably have way more in their budget and they’re like, ooh, we’re getting a bargain. And then I guess it doesn’t feel good in the sense of. Because I did, like, a really job, and, like, they loved it and were really impressed, and I. Yeah, so that’s where it’s like, oh, okay. So I gave more value than they paid because I undervalued myself. You know what I mean? And that didn’t feel good. 

00:29:06 – Linzy Bonham 

Yeah. Like, they protected you from just how much you were undervaluing yourself by being like, no, no, no, we’re not gonna pay you 350. Let us pay you a thousand. And I have personally done that with people before where I’m like, no, no, no, no. I’m not going to pay you that little. Like, it’s like, I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night paying you that little. But if they paid you a thousand, they probably had 1500 or 2000 in their budget. Right. So, yeah, I’m hearing there is feelings associated with that because it’s just like, damn it, that was a missed opportunity. 

00:29:32 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah. 

00:29:33 – Linzy Bonham 

Going forward, you could look at pricing at 1500 or 2000 for a large group like that part of it. Alyssa is starting to get some intel from the buyer’s perspective of what do they pay for talks like that. You know, if they have, like, an elite speaker come in, what do they pay them? What is their training budget that they have? And I do wonder if you have maybe some connections at the university or folks that, you know who could find that information for you, because that’s getting into the buyer side of things. Of, like, how are they thinking about these decisions? Which, like, there’s somebody who will tell you that information of, like, what they pay on average. 

00:30:10 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, yeah. I’m trying to think through. No one comes to mind. I can think more about it. I mean, a lot of the universities where I have more connections are in other states, so, like, South Florida. But the pricing there is going to be a lot different because it’s more expensive down there than Milwaukee, Wisconsin. But I’m even just thinking about. There’s always, like, on the listservs, like, oh, has anyone brought this person in to speak? Do you have experience with this person? I can always go on those people’s websites and see what they charge 100%. I’m sure it’s like $10,000 or something. 

00:30:43 – Linzy Bonham 

But this is where market research comes in. Right. Like, you’re moving into a new era in your business. So taking three or four hours to do a really good scan of, like, okay, those elite Speakers, what are they charging? When this university is asking for a speaker, is there a price tag they’re offering? Like when you talk to other colleagues of yours who are speaking in Florida, what are people charging in Florida to give you like a floor and a ceiling? Right, like, okay, nobody’s paying less than 500, so I’m never going to ask less than, than 500. People are paying up to 20,000. Probably not there yet, but yeah, getting that sense, because pricing is always a conversation between the person who is offering the service and the value and the buyer. So there’s always going to be this little bit of a back and forth of how these things are valued. It’s not a set in stone thing, but it’s good to get a sense of what the ballpark is so you can start that conversation on the right foot, not offer super low, but not also offer so high that you’ve just ended the conversation. There’s a negotiation there with large talks like this. And so, yeah, I think some market research coupled with really getting clear on like, yeah, what are the topics that you can offer? Selling it so that when somebody comes. How does that sit with you? That idea of getting much more clarity on your side of what you’re willing to do and for how much?

00:31:58 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, I think that is really good because the most recent talk I had, like this was with that speed skating group and that was a week or two ago. And I did notice I was selling it more and saying like, oh, yes, this is so helpful for athletes to acknowledge their performance anxiety and talk about things that will help. And so I think be more purposeful in doing that. I mean, part of it too is, yeah, going in with more confidence rather than just trying to guess what will you pay me exactly. Like, what do you think I’m worth? Yes, I think that is really helpful.

00:32:31 – Linzy Bonham 

And I’m curious if we go back to that university talk, because I feel like that was like your biggest win so far. 

00:32:36 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah. Yeah. 

00:32:37 – Linzy Bonham 

What would have been a number that you would have been paid that you’d be like, yeah, that felt really good. That felt like I really was compensated for the value that I gave that group. 

00:32:45 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, I think 1500. Yeah, feels good. 

00:32:48 – Linzy Bonham 

Okay. Okay. So I think that’s your new number that you start to work with. You’re gonna, you know, do your scan as well and see, make sure that’s in a reasonable ballpark. I think it is based on that first experience. But when you give a talk to a large group of, you know, more than 200 people, it’s $1,500 is your starting point. Yeah. Okay, so what are you noticing? Coming towards the end of our conversation? 

00:33:09 – Alyssa Zajdel 

I feel a lot calmer. And this gives me, like. Well, just. Yeah, it gives me better insight, gives me action items. And I already did have a potential action item of, like, I should probably make a sales page about this. But then I was just getting so stuck on. But, like, what number do I even put? You know? But I think from this, it kind of solidifies. We didn’t directly talk about this. Well, you kind of did, but this idea of, like, okay, just set a number and see what happens and increase or decrease as needed as I learn more. And. Yeah. And I think really thinking about, what are the benefits? Selling it, doing that market research. Like, yeah, this has been. I just feel in my body so much calmer, which is so, so nice. 

00:33:53 – Linzy Bonham 

Yeah. And that conversation piece, like, the market is also shifting. Right. Like. And I’m talking in, like, way too economic terms. Sorry to everybody listening and to you, but, you know, we know politically feel things are feeling uncertain. I’m seeing that impact in our business. I’m hearing that from the folks that we serve is like, you know, it’s less of a boom, prosperity time right now. But when you put out your pricing, you start a conversation, and if you put out fifteen hundred dollars and somebody contacts you and is like, alyssa, we absolutely love you. We want you to come, but our budget has just been cut. Would you do it for 1200? Now you have feedback that you’re in the ballpark, but, you know, and then you can decide if that’s worth it for you. And it’s the same with us when we. Every time I sell, I get the opportunity to get feedback on the price I’ve set and where my people are at right now, and then that gets you a sense of what your people are thinking, and then you can make decisions strategically about how to serve them in this moment. 

00:34:42 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah, totally. That’s really helpful. 

00:34:45 – Linzy Bonham 

Alyssa, thank you so much for coming on today. I’m so excited for you and this work that you’re doing. I just see so much opportunity here, not just to grow yourself as a thought leader and make an impact, but also for that group practice you want to build one day.

00:34:58 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah. 

00:34:58 – Linzy Bonham 

This will also be a great way for folks to know about you. So I’m really, really excited that you’re doing this work. 

00:35:03 – Alyssa Zajdel 

Yeah. Cool. Thank you so much. This has been just so helpful. 

00:35:06 – Linzy Bonham 

You’re welcome. You’re welcome. I so appreciate Alyssa coming on the podcast. Today. And this piece that we talked about, where you think about what you actually want to offer, you know, what is the value of that, so that you’re selling something rather than being asked for something is going to make a big difference for Alyssa. Right? And as I mentioned, it is a conversation. Pricing is a conversation. So it’s only when we put out our pricing that we can get feedback on how close that is to what our ideal target audience is looking and able to pay. So a lot of building expanded offers like Alyssa is doing is just putting it out there and seeing how people respond and starting to sell what you sell and think about what is the value to that person that you’re serving and seeing how they react to certain prices. Getting a sense of like, what is their budget? If you’re looking at Alyssa is like at institutions, what do institutions have? What is normal for them to pay for? A talk like this, getting a sense of all of those things is going to help Alyssa shift from just kind of shooting in the dark. Does she charge $50? Does she charge 50,000? To having a range to work with? So I’m very excited for her for those next steps she’s going to take to get that clarity in being able to set that pricing around her speaking engagements. Thanks so much for joining me today. I’m Lindsey Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of Money Skills for Therapists. If you’re ready to go for money confusion and shame to feeling clear and empowered, my free on demand masterclass is the best place to start. You’ll learn my four step framework to get your private practice finances finally working for you. Register today using the link in the show notes or go to moneynutsandbolts.com under masterclass. I look forward to supporting you.