(00:00:00) Kellie Murry
The first thought that came to mind was just enjoyment. Like, just enjoying life. Like, I don’t have to be striving towards something.
I don’t have to be… the milestones don’t matter as much. They’re not the driving force, right? Like, it’s just day-to-day, what’s the adventure today? What could happen today? Out of versus the, I have to make something happen today. Yeah.
(0:00:23) Linzy Bonham
And what do you notice talking about that? That idea of just like, what could happen today?
(00:00:27) Kellie Murry
It’s just more curiosity. There’s more like grounding. There’s more compassion for myself, but there’s just, there’s just more, yeah, more freedom.
(00:00:38) Linzy Bonham
Welcome to Money Skills for Therapists, the podcast that helps therapists and health practitioners in private practice go from money confusion and shame to calm, clarity, and confidence with their finances. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by numbers or avoided looking at your business money, you’re in the right place. I’m Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of Money Skills for Therapists.
Before we jump in, check out my free on-demand masterclass. You’ll find the link in the show notes or at moneynutsandbolts.com under masterclass. It’s the best first step to finally feeling empowered with money in your private practice. Let’s get started.
Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. Today’s episode is a coaching conversation with Kellie Murry.
(00:01:22) Linzy Bonham
Kellie is a therapist based in Burbank, California, and she’s a graduate of Money Skills for Therapists. Today, Kellie and I talk about what to do once you have started to come out of that survival mode. You know, if you’ve spent your life always just trying to get through this to get to the next thing, get through that to get to the thing after that, just kind of surviving and scraping by, and then things actually start to work for you.
In Kellie’s case, you start to build stability in your private practice. You start to have money around. Then there’s that question of what’s next, and that’s what Kellie and I dig into today.
What do you do next once you have started to move out of that survival mode? How do you start to shift into more of like a living and thriving space if that’s something you have not been able to do before? This is a great conversation for people who feel like you’re always in that just getting by place, not able to slow down, always hustling, and you see yourself working towards and wanting to work towards being somewhere else. There’s lots of great ideas here today on how to start to enjoy the stability that you’ve built and start to shift into the next phase of life. Here is my conversation with Kellie Murry.
So Kellie, welcome to the podcast.
(00:02:41) Kellie Murry
Thank you for having me. I’m excited.
(00:02:43) Linzy Bonham
Yeah, thank you for being here. So Kellie, with our time together today, what would be helpful for us to focus on?
(00:02:50) Kellie Murry
I think like where I’m at in my practice, I’ve been practicing for about four years now on my own and finally feel like I’m getting a grasp on it. Like I can see things clearly, finances are clearer, and so it’s looking at like, well, what’s next? Like what’s the visionary, you know, the five-year plan, what’s the next steps here? Now that I’m not in survival mode and just like I hope this all works out, it’s where do I see this going long term and how do I make this sustainable? That kind of bigger existential kind of questions.
(00:03:23) Linzy Bonham
Right, yes. Just the existential stuff. That’s fine.
Yeah. Yeah, because I am curious for you about where this question is coming from. Like is there a rising up in you and like there should be something more? Is it the idea that you should be planning? Do you have hunger for other things? Tell me about where this question is rooted.
(00:03:40) Kellie Murry
I think it feels like I’ve worked really hard on just getting by and that’s been so much of my life of just getting to the next thing, like getting through high school, getting to college, getting graduate school, like all of the getting by stuff. And I’m realizing that I really value having more of the solid, not rushing, not getting by, but more of that like intentional planning. So I’m wanting to shift from the getting by to where do I see this going? Like, so there’s nothing like pressing, but it’s more of like, right, I feel stable. Now how do I rearrange the furniture so that I can like enjoy it more?
(00:04:22) Linzy Bonham
Yeah, because what I’m hearing there is a shift from more of a survival space where it’s like you’re trying to get through something. You’re trying to get the end, like get to the end of high school, get to the end of college, you know, like there’s always this next point that you need to get to, which is more of a survival space, right, where we’re just like pulling on our resources to make it to that finish line, whatever it is, looking to shift more to living to thriving space. Like I think about this kind of continuum of surviving to living to thriving.
And a lot of times we spend a lot of time in surviving, especially depending on what we’ve survived, what we’ve grown up with, moving into living. And then the next space naturally once you’re living is like, what else is there? What more is there? And I’m curious, like, if you think about that surviving, living, thriving continuum, where would you put yourself right now?
(00:05:11) Kellie Murry
I’d say in the living. Yeah, I’d say especially this year it’s really transitioned out of the surviving and into the living.
(00:05:19) Linzy Bonham
So tell me what looks different about living. What does living look like for you?
(00:05:23) Kellie Murry
Just a very like lowered sense of anxiety, like that lowered, is it enough? Lowered urgency, like everything has to be done right this second. Just that constant energy is not as present, I would say.
(00:05:40) Linzy Bonham
Yeah, because that’s how it was before. I’m hearing this like not enough constant, like almost like a revving. It’s like your engine is coming to more of a hum, maybe.
(00:05:51) Kellie Murry
Yeah, like cruising, like we’re just in cruise mode right now. Yes.
(00:05:54) Linzy Bonham
And how would you describe cruising? How is it to cruise instead of like to rev and push?
(00:05:59) Kellie Murry
It feels weird at first because it’s so different, but it also feels like, oh, this is my life. Like this feels good. This feels comforting. This feels secure. This is like I’m in control rather than situation is in control. So like my practice name is Even If Therapy, which is kind of a model that I have for myself. Even if the worst things happen, even if terrible life circumstances shift my worldview or whatever, I will be okay because I have the resources and I can find ways of getting through it. Rather than the thing defining me, it’s me defining me. And so that living is that, living in that space. Like it doesn’t matter what crazy world is going to throw at me. Like I’m going to be okay.
(00:06:47) Linzy Bonham
Yes. Yeah. I hear like a resilience piece there. Okay. So now you’re in this living place, which is new. Welcome.
(00:06:56) Kellie Murry
Thank you. It’s a nice place to be. It’s nice to be here.
(00:07:01) Linzy Bonham
Yes. Nice to be here. Yeah. And so, yeah. So this next piece, then this, you know, planning ahead, the word that we chatted about a little bit before we started recording was like this kind of visionary piece of your practice. Tell me about what you’re looking for with that. Like, is there, is there more that needs to be added to the living? I’m thinking about this as a living to thriving move, which is also philosophically, like I find kind of an interesting place of like when we’re like, Hey, I’m no longer surviving. Now what? Yeah. So yeah. Tell me a little bit more about what you’ve noticed you’d like to change or could be different about the living space that you’re in that would make it better for you.
(00:07:37) Kellie Murry
Yeah. I mean, there’s just some practical stuff, like being completely debt-free, which I’m on the path to that. And that feels really exciting. Thanks to your skills that you’ve helped me with, but like completely debt-free having just more margin in life where finances are more marginalized living space. I’m in an apartment right now. I’d love to be like in some kind of home house situation. I’m working with my office space to be like, I’m sub-leasing. So I would love to be able to have my own to be able to decorate it how I want to. So kind of like those practical places that I’m like, I want again, that’s secure. Like this is mine almost like ownership. And then I want this, some arm of mine to like teaching, coaching, mentoring, pouring into somebody else, giving what I didn’t have is a big part of like a value of mine. And right now it hasn’t been able like possible. Like I feel like if I brought in like an associate or something, be like, that would be bad for them. And for me, like, I’m not in a space. I don’t have capacity for that. So I see like the thriving of being able to have capacity to help somebody else in this field and to help them learn the things that I had to learn the hard way or to like challenge some of the stuff earlier on. So they don’t have to go through the same route of just getting by in the same way.
(00:09:10) Linzy Bonham
Yeah. I have this visual in my head of kind of like turning back and giving a hand up to the person who’s a few steps behind you to help them get to where you are. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So I’m hearing there’s, there’s certainly a goal here of building more, more stability for yourself, right? Like having an office that’s yours, owning a home, which is a journey that doesn’t happen overnight, but yeah, like getting more and more of a toehold of stability in your life. And when I think about stability, I think about what is the stability allow you to do, right? Cause stability is about, about safety, really in a lot of ways, right? We’re talking about in this case, more kind of like financial safety and more control over your environment, which all is about making us safe. And I’m hearing too about like giving back. I’m curious, like once you’re safe or, or even now, what do you want more of in your life now? Cause what I’m almost hearing is another got to get there, right? Like I got to get my own office space. I got to like get a house. And what I’m wondering is if there maybe is a bit of a repetition there of like, okay, I got to get through here to get there. Right. And then when you get there, you’re going to have to get somewhere else, which these milestones are parts of what we, you know, do help us create financial stability in our lives. But I’m also curious about what thriving could look like today for you, right? Like as you’re in more of this living space, there’s still things you want to make more solid, but also what does thriving actually look like for you emotionally, like physically, energetically? What is thriving to you?
(00:10:34) Kellie Murry
I think just being more in an ease, like coming out of a place of ease versus again, like I was saying, like that panic, stressful, urgent energy level that I was living in for so long. It’s more of now, like I don’t have to hold things so tightly. I don’t have to stress about little stuff, whether that’s in relationships, whether that’s just real practical things, whether that’s even scheduling or whatever it is, like just holding life a little more loose so that there’s flow versus like that rigid, got to grab onto it.
(00:11:11) Linzy Bonham
Yeah. And once there is more flow, what would you be doing?
(00:11:14) Kellie Murry
The first thought that came to mind was just enjoyment, like just enjoying life, like I don’t have to be striving towards something. I don’t have to be, the milestones don’t matter as much. They’re not the driving force, right? Like it’s, it’s just day to day. What’s the adventure today? What could happen today out of versus the, I have to make something happen today.
(00:11:37) Linzy Bonham
Yeah. And what do you notice talking about that, that idea of just like, what could happen today?
(00:11:40) Kellie Murry
It’s just more curiosity. There’s more like grounding. There’s more compassion for myself, but there’s just, there’s just more, yeah, more freedom.
(00:11:51) Linzy Bonham
And then that makes me wonder the freedom to do what, like when we think about visionary, usually it’s that there’s some sort of mission, you know, that we’re driven towards something we’re really passionate about something we can’t stop thinking about something we’ve always loved since we were a kid, but maybe we had to put it aside in order to adult and jump through the hoops. Right. And so when I think about like ease and freedom, it’s like, you know, there’s the, the movement away from something, right? Like you’re moving away from tightness. You’re moving away from having to worry. You’re moving away from having to survive to the next stage. What are you moving towards? What for you really lights you up? And this could be something professionally work that you look to professionally. It could be something that just brings depth and meaning and joy to your life. Like, what do you love that could have more space in your life and would make your life richer and more meaningful?
(00:12:44) Kellie Murry
I’ve struggled with this question because so much of my life has been about, well, you got to do the right thing. So the right thing outweighs what you, the exploration to figure out what you love. So I think what I’m working towards is discovering what it is that I love and giving myself the opportunity to explore. Like, I’ve always thought about myself as like loving to travel. Like, well, do I love to travel? I don’t know. I don’t want to travel that much. So like, is that something that I would love? I don’t know. Yeah. So when I think about what do I love, what I work, you know, even as a little girl, like there was so much about what’s coming next and doing the right thing and being perfect, but there wasn’t space for that. So working into giving space to explore, to discover. That’s what thriving feels like. It’s not this set, okay, now we move on or we have this dream or we have this vision. It’s what works like time and space and ease and comfort and curiosity to just, what do I love? What brings me life? What is not about other people’s opinions or judgments that it’s just like, well, what do I want to do?
(00:13:58) Linzy Bonham
Yeah. What I’m hearing is the space to actually get to know yourself at this new stage of your life. Like, who are you? Yeah. Like that idea, like travel. Do you like travel? Like sometimes we have a story about who we are. Right. I’ve had this question myself sometimes about gardening. I’m like, I say I like gardening. And then by July, I’m like, ugh. It’s like, do I like gardening? I don’t know. Do I like the idea of gardening? Is there some other version? Although this year I have to say my gardening game is strong. So I think I do like gardening. I just didn’t have the time and space to enjoy it because I was doing other things. So I’m hearing that part of the need here or the opportunity is just to be with yourself and see who you are now, what you like, you know, discover what does let you up through doing and trying and, and being curious. So as we think about, you know, where you are then in your practice, let’s, let’s take a bit of a practical turn. How can you integrate more of this into your practice?
(00:14:55) Kellie Murry
I think that checking in of how does this feel? Like, how does it feel after the end of a day that I’ve had seven clients or how does it feel when I’ve had a day of three clients? How does it feel when I’ve worked so many hours? Getting more curious about what does this feel like? What is like the business part of me when she puts on her cap and gown and says, this is who I am? How does she feel at the end of the week? What does she need differently? And getting to know her differently and supporting her. So I think that’s a big piece of it. And then that continued of how do I create more margin? So what steps do I need to do in the sense of like what clients I take, what fees I set, what courses I’m in, what emails I’m getting about do this thing and you’ll save your practice, all that stuff, right? Like listening to what is in line with my values and giving myself the space to get to know myself, to try different things, to be okay with the let’s try this, but not in a tape and glue mindset that I’ve had from the starting, but in the does this shoe fit or what I have been doing, okay, does it still fit?
(00:16:04) Linzy Bonham
Yes, because you change. People change over time. Okay, so I’m hearing some room for curiosity throughout the week. Do you have days when you’re seeing seven clients?
(00:16:13) Kellie Murry
Tomorrow, unfortunately.
(00:16:14) Linzy Bonham
That makes me so sleepy.
(00:16:16) Kellie Murry
I know. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
(00:16:22) Linzy Bonham
Okay. What a rich opportunity to check in with yourself at the end of the day and just notice what is that like when you see seven clients? Like almost like what is the cost of that? Because we know what the gain of that is going to be. You’re going to collect seven hourly fees at the fee that you’ve set. So we know financially it’s going to look good on paper. But yeah, letting yourself notice like what is that actually like for you energetically, physically to do a seven client day? Because I’m curious with your practice, have you set a schedule yet? Like, do you have a sense of what that good schedule looks like for you? Or is this also part of the wondering?
(00:16:57) Kellie Murry
No, I have. And I’ve really gotten better at that. But there’s always this one-off day or once in a blue moon where I don’t listen to myself and listen to the anxiety part of, I need to put this person in here. They can’t go when I need it. So that’s what this was about. And yeah, I already know like, I shouldn’t have done that. Because that’s the old stuff, right? Like that’s the old me where I saw seven clients regularly. And so leaning more into nope, I need to be more protective of those days so that I can have this curiosity space. So I can have this getting to know me space.
(00:17:38) Linzy Bonham
Yeah, because with this as well, it makes me wonder about how do you really protect yourself and protect this space? Because what I’m hearing is the old way is to listen to the anxiety and say, well, I have to fit this client somewhere. Otherwise, I won’t get the money this week or otherwise they won’t be happy with me or whatever the narrative is, right? And you cram them into a day. And now tomorrow, poor Kellie of tomorrow is going to have to see seven clients. I’m sure she will do a great job, but it’s going to hurt, probably. So what are some of the protections you can build into your practice to really protect this need for curiosity and protect this need for having energy for yourself? Practically speaking, are there some hard rules that you know really work? Like no more than x clients a day, you will die. Like I have a belief somewhere inside of me, I’ll tell you that if I saw six clients in a day, I would literally die. I know that’s not true. But there’s a part of me that really believes that and that’s actually helpful. When I was a clinician, that was helpful because I would never in a thousand years book a six client. Like I just know that that costs too much. I’m curious, do you know some limits already that could help you protect this need for curiosity and being with yourself?
(00:18:44) Kellie Murry
I do. I don’t always listen to those limits because yeah, there’s still something, there’s a belief there that says, yeah, it’s okay. We can do it once in a while. Once in a while won’t kill us. So like one of them is I know I need a break in a day. So if I see six plus, well really, I see six in a day, I need an hour somewhere in the middle of that day where I can have a break. Unfortunately, tomorrow I don’t. I didn’t do that. I didn’t listen to myself. So I don’t have a break in that. So I think a practice is to really get firmer on that rule of nope, this, I can’t fit you here. And so that means we don’t meet this week. That means we don’t meet this week. One of the rules I do have is I only work four days. I don’t work Fridays, which has been, that was one of the earlier rules that I put in. And that was a game changer. Like I need my three days to just not see anything. I don’t start until noon. I’m trying to get, I have a couple of days where I’m at 11, trying to get down to noon where I just, you know, have my morning. So I’m, there’s like soft rules that are becoming more concrete, but it’s that, it’s that when the anxiety takes in, that scarcity takes in, oh my gosh, I can’t set these rules. And I have to really work with that part and go, no, we’re okay. We can set these rules. So I’m, I’m definitely growing in that muscle to set more firmer. Like I would love to have the belief, like I will die if I have six clients. I think that would save me a lot.
(00:20:14) Linzy Bonham
It serves a purpose, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it does make me wonder about even just as a shorthand, like it makes me think about with YNAB for instance, with budgeting, sometimes people will name their budget categories, something that is really personally meaningful for them, right? So that it has that personal resonance. I wonder, what would you call that block in the middle of the day that you need between clients? What is, what is that? What is that? What can you call that? So when the anxious part of you is like, well, we’ll just put them there. You have to acknowledge what you’re really overriding.
(00:20:46) Kellie Murry
It’s like free time. Is it free time? Yeah. Yeah. That’s what that block is. It’s, I’m not responsible for anything or anybody. Okay.
(00:20:55) Linzy Bonham
Okay. Can I suggest that you call it something firmer than free time? Yeah. I was going to say that. Cause free time generally doesn’t have like a very like free time is important. Like that’s not the cultural message we get free time. So I’m like, is that your sanity time? Is it Kellie’s super important self-care time not to be overridden no matter what, you know, like, it’s like, what is, what is a title that will really help you remember that you pay for it when you override that need in yourself?
(00:21:24) Kellie Murry
Irresponsible time. Like I, I know that still sounds kind of fat freedom, but it’s, that means a lot to me because it’s something that I don’t have a lot of. And so like on Fridays when I don’t have anything planned, it’s like, I have this cheat day and I can do whatever I want and I’m not responsible to anyone or anything. And it’s great. So having an hour during my work week in the middle of sessions to say, this is my irresponsible time.
(00:21:54) Linzy Bonham
So that has a positive connotation?
(00:22:55) Kellie Murry
Yeah.
(00:22:56) Linzy Bonham
Cause I think about it also like freedom from responsibility time is what I’m hearing. Yeah. Cause like it is interesting me to notice that there, there is still that kind of like a layer of judgment there, the term irresponsible generally not seen as positive. Like if you were like, oh, I’m dating someone new. They’re really irresponsible. People wouldn’t be like, uh, you know, That sounds great! Yeah. Yeah. But I’m hearing there’s maybe a little, like a little bit of a rebel piece there, you know, like it’s nice to be irresponsible.
(00:22:20) Kellie Murry
Oh, it’s rebel time. It’s rebel time. I like that.
(00:22:22) Linzy Bonham
Yeah. So can the rebel part of you protect that time from the anxious part of you that it’s important?
(00:22:29) Kellie Murry
Yeah. If I build up that, if I strengthen her and resource her and like remind her like, nope, you’re in charge. We need to put anxiety part in our, in her place. Like she’s not needed right now.
(00:22:40) Linzy Bonham
Maybe just like give her compassion and love. Remind her that, you know, you don’t actually, it’s not true. Your fears are not true.
(00:22:47) Kellie Murry
Yeah. Yeah. You can settle down.
(00:22:49) Linzy Bonham
It’s okay. Yes. So coming back to where we started, then we were talking about, you know, this getting kind of this next level, right. To this more like visionary place, moving beyond living towards more of a thriving. What are you noticing, thinking about this plan that we started to talk about of, of building more time to be curious and to notice what’s happening for you? How does that sit with you?
(00:23:13) Kellie Murry
It feels really solid, like really just grounded. Like my body feels empowered. I feel strong. It feels confident. It doesn’t feel weak. It doesn’t feel shaky. It feels, yeah, confidence just keeps coming to mind.
(00:23:28) Linzy Bonham
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, and it’s, there’s an image that often comes to mind for me when we think about expanding, you know, getting more into that thrive stage, which is that in order to really expand, you also have to be firmly rooted, right? Like if you’re a tree and you have no roots and you grow out all these branches, like you’re going to fall over. Structurally, not so good. Right. And so we need that solidity and stability to be able to reach and grow and expand and build amazing new things. And that’s what I’m thinking of when you’re describing this solidity in your body is like, this rootedness is a place from which you can expand and do all sorts of great things once you figure out what those things are.
(00:24:05) Kellie Murry
Exactly. Exactly. And that’s what I’m wanting to lean into of, of not rushing to the next thing just because it’s supposed to be with the next thing or supposed to save me from the survival mindset. Right. But like, I want to go deeper and get my roots solid and out of that solid space bloom. Like plant the seeds, you know, like when a tree blooms, it like sheds its seeds everywhere. Not out of that, like I need all the resources. It’s like I have abundance now to give out.
(00:24:34) Linzy Bonham
Beautiful. So what are you, what are you taking away from our conversation today?
(00:24:37) Kellie Murry
That I’m in a really good spot. That feels really good.
That there’s some, just some minor shifts to start making those rules to be more like reinforced and to just get more and more comfortable with myself. Getting to know myself in this stage of my practice as well as my person and letting all my parts just lean into who we are now, not who we used to be. Beautiful.
(00:24:56) Linzy Bonham
Thank you so much, Kellie, for coming on the podcast today. Thank you. This conversation with Kellie today makes me think about how so often it’s not just the what we’re doing, but the how we’re doing it that makes such a difference into how we experience our lives.
So it’s how many clients we’re seeing and what our schedule looks like, but it’s also the way that we are being with ourselves or not throughout the day. It’s, you know, whether or not we’re stopping and pausing to notice, whether we’re creating that space to be curious. Those things make a huge difference to our quality of life.
And especially when you’re curious about what’s next, when you’re wanting to get to know yourself and see what really lights you up now, you do need to slow down and be able to be with yourself in order to get to know those things. It’s easy to push through life going from one milestone to the next, to the next, to the next, always having your eyes kind of on the horizon. But then, of course, we miss what we’re doing now.
And we also miss the opportunity to make life rich and enjoyable and meaningful now. I think a lot about money and mortality, which is a bit of a heavy thing to say, but often the way that we manage money and manage business is we’re always looking over the horizon for this next great point. And it’s going to be great when X, like it’s going to be great when I’m making 50k a year, it’s going to be when I’m making 100k a year, that’s when it’s going to feel great.
Like we can always put off when life kind of starts and when life is going to start counting, but life is actually happening right now. So still letting yourself be ambitious and go towards those goals that some of us need. If you have more of that entrepreneurial kind of spirit, you might be really driven by that need to grow and build.
And I know I certainly have that, and I’m never going to change that about myself, but also being able to enjoy and be present and make sure that as you do get to know yourself and you know what really fills you up, you’re doing those things now instead of deferring for later. We never know what tomorrow is going to look like. So it’s generally a good strategy to make sure that you’re enjoying life today, as well as taking care of your future self and being responsible and mindful about money and all of those things.
So I so appreciate Kellie coming on the podcast today to share where she’s at, and I’m excited for her as she starts to figure out what really lights her up and starts to make her life look more and more like she wants it to look as she gets to know what really lights her up. I’m Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of Money Skills for Therapists. If you’re ready to go from money confusion and shame to feeling clear and empowered, my free on-demand masterclass is the best place to start.
You’ll learn my four-step framework to get your private practice finances finally working for you. Register today using the link in the show notes or go to moneynutsandbolts.com under masterclass. I look forward to supporting you.
