Meet Julie Herres

Julie [00:00:02] If you don’t know how much your fixed monthly expenses are, how much your variable expenses are, if you don’t know what your bottom line is, you’re really doing yourself a disservice in your business as well. Because cash is like the oxygen of a business, it needs it to live. So if you deprive your business of money, it’s not going to survive. And that’s not good for you, but it’s also not good for the community that you serve. 

Linzy [00:00:31] Welcome to the Money Skills For Therapists podcast, where we answer this question. How can therapists and health practitioners go from money shame and confusion to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of the course Money Skills For Therapists. 

Linzy [00:00:52] Hello, and welcome back to the Money Skills For Therapists podcast. So the podcast has been out in the world now for two weeks, and we’re starting to get some reviews come in and I wanted to share one of those today before we dove into our episode with accountant Julie Herres. So a review that came across from Deborah about the podcast. She shared the podcast has been such a blessing and is so needed the strategies have been helpful, and Linzy’s eloquence, empathy and constructive approach is so refreshing. This topic is so needed. Thank you, Deborah, so much for your review. And if you’re listening, please jump over and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts, specifically. That is the way for us to get more eyes- well, ears specifically on this podcast for therapies and health practitioners who also want to hear more about money. So today’s episode is with accountant Julie Herres. So. Therapists and health practitioners, and accountants, we tend to occupy different ends of the universe. It can feel like and I’ve had so many therapists tell me that even though they’re professional communicators, communicating with an accountant can be so difficult and intimidating. So, Julie, I’ve sat down with her a couple of times before. She is such a lovely, approachable accountant. And today we’re going to dig into some questions of profitability in private practice. Some of the biggest mistakes that she sees therapist making in private practice and the value of knowing your numbers from her accounting perspective. She even gives us one thing that private practice owners can do right away to improve their financial situation. So Julie owns GreenOak Accounting It is accounting firm specifically targeted at therapists. They serve therapists all over the United States, and she always has so much to say in a very accessible way. Very refreshing. So without further ado, here’s Julie. 

Linzy [00:02:49] So, Julie, thank you so much for joining us today. I’m so excited to have you on the podcast. 

Julie [00:02:54] Thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here. 

Linzy [00:02:56] Yeah. So Julie, something that you probably know about therapists and health practitioners already is a lot of us are really intimidated by accountants. I know it’s shocking, right? Right. Like, sometimes it almost feels like this like gap of like two different cultures. And like, we don’t know how to talk to each other. So I’m really glad to have you here today because not only are you an accountant who I’m going to ask you some questions and and let our listeners have some time with you. But you’re an accountant who specializes in working with therapists and mostly mental health therapists. 

Julie [00:03:29] Yes. Yeah, exactly. 

Linzy [00:03:30] So you you kind of bridge that gap a little bit that often therapists feel like are there. 

Julie [00:03:36] I think so. And I like to think that my heart, my team has the heart of a teacher, right? And I think that’s one of the advantages of working with us is that we know how to kind of bridge that gap. And in the sense that I think we’re going to start building the blocks over time of financial knowledge so that you, a therapist, can understand what’s going on in their business because they should. 

Linzy [00:03:59] Yeah, I love that. And I think that really hits on like a key problem that therapists have that like you’re solving and and I’m solving and like things like there are people like us who are trying to solve it, which is that we just are never taught these things. So there is a lot of learning to do. 

Julie [00:04:13] Yeah, it’s such a blind spot where you start your own business and you might know therapy really well, but that doesn’t mean you know the business side and there’s just so much to it. You’ve got to. I truly believe every practice should be profitable because you deserve to make money doing your your god given talent. 

Linzy [00:04:31] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it’s easy to have it not be profitable if you don’t know what you’re doing. So I mean, moving into that, Julie, I’m curious, what are some of the common mistakes that you see private practice owners making when it comes to money? 

Julie [00:04:47] I would say probably number one is just not knowing your numbers. I would say the most common mistake is just not knowing your numbers. And it’s easy to just put your head in the sand and not really look and think if I don’t look at the problem doesn’t exist. But not knowing what’s going on financially in your business. And so that doesn’t mean that you need to become an accountant or become an expert at anything. But if you don’t know how much money’s coming into the business, if you don’t know how much your fixed monthly expenses are, how much your variable expenses are. If you don’t know what your bottom line is, you’re really doing yourself a disservice in your business as well. Because cash is like the oxygen of a business, it needs it to live. So if you either- if you deprive your business of money, it’s not going to survive and that’s that’s not good for you, but it’s also not good for the community that you serve. Yeah, that would be one of the big mistakes that I see often. I’ve got a lot more. How many do you want? 

Linzy [00:05:45] Oh, like so many. 

Julie [00:05:46] So many, OK, mistake number two, I would say, not saving for taxes. Taxes are inevitable.  Death and taxes are our two certainties in life. And so from the very beginning, you’ve got to be saving for taxes. And one of the reasons this often happens is if someone’s transitioning from being an employee to being a business owner. When you’re an employee, the taxes are already taken out of your paycheck, right? And your employer remits those to the government. All as well. You might owe a little bit at the end of the year, but nothing crazy. But when you’re a business owner, depending on the legal entity, you may not have paid anything in taxes. And so you’re taking money home thinking, Oh, this is all mine, but really, it’s not. 25 percent, 30 percent, 40 percent of that might actually be the government’s money. And so it’s one of those cases, too, where you’re doing yourself a disservice if you’re not thinking ahead and planning for that because that is coming at some point you’re going to owe those taxes, and I’d much rather someone be prepared for it, even if they’re just a little bit short. It’s still better than in your second year of business, catching up from the mistake of the first year and trying to get ahead for year two. So, so, so hard. 

Linzy [00:06:58] Yeah, yeah. We call that kind of like the the tax cycle where it’s like once you get behind, you’re trying to pay back the past, but you’re also trying to save for now. And often what I see people do is they prioritize that past payment because that’s the one that has interest and that’s the one that has emotional weight. You need to cover that, but then you still don’t save for the future and you’re just going to be in the exact same spot a year from now. 

Julie [00:07:18] Exactly. And you’re not paying estimated taxes. And even with a payment plan, right? So sometimes if you if you have a big, big payment owed and you don’t have enough money, you can set up a payment plan, but that’s going to take you years to pay down. And so it’s just this this vicious cycle where it just gets harder and harder. So planning that from the beginning is always, always, always a good recommendation. 

Linzy [00:07:44] Absolutely. 

Julie [00:07:45] I also think one of the one of the mistakes I see often is waiting too long to get help. And that’s not necessarily in accounting, although it certainly does apply, but when starting a business, it’s kind of natural to want to bootstrap everything and just do it on the cheap. Or you’re bootstrapping your own website and you’re you’re doing your own billing and you’re doing your own bookkeeping and answering all the phones, right? And for a certain period of time, that can be really helpful, and it’s good to know how to do those things. But there comes a time where you’re going to burn out from doing all the things, and financially it’s actually more efficient for you to give those tasks to someone else. Like, if you’re not, if you’re returning calls two days later because you don’t have time just paying someone $15-$20 an hour to answer calls either live or return phone calls within a couple of hours. That’s just going to be money well spent because you’re it’s going to increase your number of clients. It’s going to increase your revenue coming into the business and decrease the time it takes you to take to do that. 

Linzy [00:08:48] Absolutely. Yeah. And I think, you know, going back to your saying about knowing your numbers, that’s where knowing your numbers, you can start to make those kinds of strategic decisions. That’s a strategic decision, right? And I think for private practitioners, we have this real thing with bootstrapping like more than so many other industries where we just start from nothing and then we just try to make everything happen from nothing. From nothing, in terms of financially, we often start with like, no, we don’t get loans in our industry. Like even though like if you’re going to start a restaurant, you go and you get like $150000 loan. And in our industry, you start a private practice and you just, like, try to fund it from your bank account, which if you can, that’s great. Or a lot of people put stuff on their credit cards or just pay for it from their personal money. And so, you know, that piece about knowing your numbers that lets you make those really smart decisions. As you say, that’s like a better use of your money because you’re actually going to make more money for having made that decision. 

Julie [00:09:40] Yeah. In this day and age, in this virtual world, it’s so easy to get a virtual assistant that’s not even going to be full time for you, right? You might hire someone five hours a week, but if you are charging $150 per session, and that may be high for some areas, low for some areas. But if you’re charging 150 per session and hiring someone, again, at $20 an hour, gets you even one additional client on your calendar like you’ve made a lot of money in that time, so freeing you up to see additional clients. And then just also making getting that revenue in. Same thing. The same can apply, certainly to your accounting right. If you’re DIYing it and missing stuff, missing deductions, filing your tax return wrong, that can be really costly to fix. 

Linzy [00:10:27] Yes. 

Julie [00:10:27] I’ve seen it plenty of times where it would have been cheaper to do it right the first time with a professional, than to fix the mistake. 

Linzy [00:10:33] Yes. 

Julie [00:10:33] But a website is an example I like because I am very crappy at updating my website, like that is not one of my talents. And so I might spend five hours working on something and my awesome admin will go do it in 20 minutes. So like, I know, I should not have been spending my time doing that right? That was not efficient. 

Linzy [00:10:53] I think health practitioners, particularly, we’re used to being very competent, like the work mental health professionals do especially. And that’s the work I know best, so I can speak to it. Like you’re used to being so on the ball and so able to, like, solve these problems that other people would run away screaming if they had to do the work that we do. And I think that leads to kind of this blindness where we believe that we’re the ones who need to do that thing, that we could do our website better than somebody else or like we need to be the ones returning phone calls. And it’s a very costly belief. 

Julie [00:11:26] It really is, and that’s not to say that you shouldn’t know how to make a minor update on your website, but that doesn’t mean you need to know all the inner workings of it. Like that’s not an efficient use of your time or my time. In my case, my time. But it’s also not something that- I’m never going to go start a website company because I am not good at it and so like, so trusting the professionals to do their work is is is a good idea here. 

Linzy [00:11:54] Yes. And I’m hearing also financially, it’s a better decision to do it that way. Much of the time. 

Julie [00:12:01] Usually they’re going to be just a professional is going to be much more efficient at it. All right. I’m going to give you one more. I think it’s very, very common when going from solo practice owner to group practice, paying that first hire too much. I’ve seen it over and over and over again. Like, I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen that. And it comes from such a place of kindness and wanting to lift others up and do right by other people. It comes from a place of, I’ve worked for someone else and I hardly made anything and it didn’t feel good and so I want to give them as much as I possibly can. So it comes from a very good place. But when adding one clinician, typically you don’t need more physical space. If you if you even have an office anymore, you need very little additional overhead. You might have a EHR subscription, email subscription, right? Those costs are minimal and you typically are not going to need to all of a sudden add a full time admin just because you add one person. So you’re probably still taking the calls, doing some of the intake, doing the billing, but that’s not sustainable long term. Right. So while that while those numbers might work for the first clinician, if you’re not thinking of where am I ending up in one, three, five years and what support am I going to need to sustain that kind of a team? You’re paying someone too much because you haven’t built in the full time admin, the biller, the additional physical space, and all the other pieces that come along with having a group practice. And it’s very fair for that to be paid for by other people’s money, right? You shouldn’t be having to work harder to pay for everyone else’s overhead. And be losing money on each session that your clinicians see.  

Linzy [00:13:43] And so I’m really curious, Julie, like, is there a magic number that you do suggest for people who are starting to hire clinicians under them as employees or subcontractors? Is it a split? What do you suggest? 

Julie [00:13:54] Well, so there’s a lot of different ways that clinicians can be compensated. But just generally speaking, for a large group practice, we look for no more than 55 percent of gross income to be going to clinician payroll. And so there’s some times, like right now, it’s a very tight labor market. It’s very hard to hire. We’re seeing that number sneak up, but that usually means it’s going to be reduced somewhere else. And what I mean by that is not every single person needs to be at 55 percent, right? But you’re going to have some more experienced people who might be a little bit higher. But typically that’s going to also be offset with less experienced people at lower rates. Because if everyone on your team is an 80 percent split, there just is not any room for profit like there literally is no room and chances are that you’re losing money on each session. So, so an average is that’s kind of where we like to see that, including payroll tax too 

Linzy [00:14:50] OK. So that includes payroll tax. So that doesn’t mean they have a 55/45 split with you. That means at the end of the day after payroll. 

Julie [00:14:58] Yes. So if they were a contractor where no taxes are withheld, they might be at a 55 percent split. But if they’re an employee, they might be at a 50 percent split because after payroll taxes, that costs you about 55. And if you wanted to add benefits, you might want to even adjust that a little bit as well. 

Linzy [00:15:13] OK, great. That’s a very helpful guideline. So, Julie, what is one thing that private practice owners listening today, what’s one thing that they could do to improve their financial situation, like right away,. 

[00:15:26] Right away? I would say reverse engineer your lifestyle. And what I mean by that is a lot of times when we onboard a new client, we’ll ask them how much money are you looking to take home per month from the business? And a lot of times they don’t actually know what that is. And there’s always the want- I want to be taking on 50,000 per month, right? And that’s all well and good. But what do you actually need? Like, what does it take to sustain your household, to pay your mortgage, your rent, your car, your kid’s activities? What are the minimum things? There’s there’s a kind of nice to have and good to have, right. Those are, to me, those are two different numbers, but a lot of people don’t know either one of those. And so if we start there, we can do the math on what does that mean in your business? How many sessions per month, per day, per week? We can break it down in a really granular way that doesn’t seem so overwhelming. So we just need the information for that. I was just reading a book by Tim Ferriss. I think it’s a four hour workweek. And he talks about like, what’s your dollar amount per day that you need to survive? And I thought that was really interesting because I typically have looked at it by month. Yeah, but even per day, if you need whatever, it may be a $125 per day like, that’s not overwhelming at all. Can I go make $125 today? Yeah, I can definitely do that, right? So. So I don’t know that that’s not necessarily my number, but I just thought it was an interesting way to look at it. So if we if we can just focus in on that, then that also tells us, like, what is the next thing that you need to do today in your business, right? So if you need if you need, for example, 100 sessions per month and you’re currently aiming or you’re currently projecting, you’re going to have 75, then you know, OK, I’ve got to do some marketing activities today like we need to get more people in. And if you’re projecting for one hundred and twenty five, then your activity might be, OK, it’s time to hire or who’s going to see all these clients. So knowing what that threshold is can be helpful in so many different ways. 

Linzy [00:17:30] Yeah, I love that because it it really demystifies. It demystifies the the business and our fees and our client hours. And and I do the same thing with my students. I’m a firm believer – I’m right with you – in like, there’s real numbers here. There’s real numbers, like we don’t have to set a random fee based on what people around us are doing. We don’t have to see the same amount of clients other people are seeing, like there’s actually a number that supports your life. And when you know that number, as you say, you can then make your business support that like, fund your life. 

Julie [00:17:59] Yeah, absolutely. And I was talking to a client a couple of weeks ago, and she is a solo practice owner, wants to stay that way, and is consistently full every week. Always, always, always full. So we were talking about, OK, well, she would like to be taking home a little bit more money. And a year ago, that wasn’t the case, she wasn’t always full, but now that she always is like, OK, how about you raise your rate $20 an hour? And we can look at the numbers, look at the difference this does when you don’t have employees, like you can see more clients or raise your rate, like those are kind of the main two things you can certainly control expenses. That’s always a good thing. But there comes a point where there’s only so many more places to cut without you spending a whole lot of time doing something manually. And so just knowing, Hey, I want more, how do I get there? Like that’s that’s a fun exercise to do as well. Mm hmm. 

Linzy [00:18:52] Yeah. And I love that too, because I think that also- that’s asking therapists and health practitioners to do something that we don’t naturally do first, which is like, think about your needs first, right? This business is funding your life. Like the point is that you’re it’s paying for your home and your life and your kids activities, as you say. And I think as therapists, we can get so focused on our clients and our clients’ needs that when you know, when they come back, that question of like, Well, what should I charge them like? Well, people don’t have money or, you know, like, Oh, well, I need to see as many people as I can because people, we think about their needs first and often they’re kind of made up needs their stories that we have, rather than thinking about the fact that the business is supposed to be supporting us. This is like the work we’re doing to make money in the world. 

Julie [00:19:37] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s a limiting belief of, I don’t think people will pay, and it is possible that if you raise your rate, some clients will leave, right, it is possible. But then they will likely be replaced with clients who also equally need you and can afford to pay your fee. And of course, I’m probably a little bit less emotional, I’m an accountant. Like I know my viewpoint. But but to me, like part of our our job as the accounting team is to say, Hey, you deserve to make more money. You have one more year of experience the last year, right? And also to normalize like it’s OK to make a good living running your private practice, like that is a very OK thing to do. You deserve to be able to pay for everything and then some. If you want to go on a nice vacation, you should be able to do that. You’re very talented. You’re very educated. There has to be profit in your practice or else why are we doing this?  

Linzy [00:20:40] So for people who are maybe DIYing their finances right now and they’re wondering about whether or not they need help, what’s your suggestion? In what cases should health practitioners and therapists be DIYing our bookkeeping and our accounting, and when should we look to hire somebody like you to get help? 

Julie [00:21:00] Yeah. So I think in the very beginning, the bootstrapping is not a bad thing. I think if you have a financially focused mind, like if you can get the work done and you will do it consistently, learning how to do your own books is really a good thing to understand how the mechanics work, what’s taxable, what’s not taxable, like how all the different pieces work. I think that will serve you well in the long run. So in that case, if you’re really good at that, I would still always team up with an accountant for your taxes. I just think as a business owner, there’s just a lot more complication to your taxes, and I’ve just seen too many errors to suggest that anyone try to DIY. Like if you’re an employee, TurboTax all day long, go for it. No judgment here, but if you have your own business, I really think you should work with with an accountant for taxes. At least there’s an annual opportunity for someone to look over what you’ve done and say, Hey, you’re doing this piece correctly, or this has changed, and kind of fix things. However, as you grow, I really think there’s a tipping point, certainly as you move into group practice, right? Because there’s a lot more complication. There’s payroll and there’s just a lot of things that can go wrong with payroll, but you’re spending a lot more time managing the business and having something like that off your plate where you’re still getting reports, you still have access to everything, you still know what’s going on with your business, but you’re not necessarily the one doing all the work. I think at the point of group practice, that should always be on the plan unless you’re someone who really, really, really enjoys and you were a CPA in a previous life like then maybe you knock yourself out or your spouse is an accountant, then that might be a little bit different. But I think it’s always beneficial to learn how to do that just so that you know what you’re looking at. But then just give it over to someone else as soon as you can afford to, because a bookkeeper, an accountant is going to be able to do things more efficiently, but probably more accurately as well. 

Linzy [00:22:57] Yeah, that’s the thing I think with doing your own taxes when you have a business, as you say, is like, you don’t know what you don’t know. So you’re doing it and you don’t realize that there’s this whole benefit, this, you know, a tax benefit that you could be getting some money back that you don’t even know about. So you’ve missed that opportunity or yeah, there’s just- I know so little of what you know, Julie. And I think that’s part of wisdom, right? Is like knowing when to hand it over. Even I, who like, loves bookkeeping and numbers and stuff, I work with an accountant. 

Julie [00:23:25] So Linzy, can I reverse this on you and ask you, when should someone DIY and when should they outsource? 

Linzy [00:23:33] Yeah, well, I’m the same page as you in terms of like, I think, always have an accountant do your taxes. I have had an accountant do my taxes for years. Unless you get some sort of really deep satisfaction from taxes. And as you say, like you were a CPA in a former life and you actually know all of the loopholes and all the little quirks and tricks. So for the most part, I’d say almost always have an accountant do your taxes. But I think in terms of bookkeeping, I mean, like what I teach in my course right is it’s important to have ownership over the numbers. And that’s what it’s all about. Like in, you know, I believe that like therapists and health practitioners should have the skills so that when we do get help with things, it’s that we’re delegating not like giving up our power, right? Because I think so often part of the reason I think so often that therapists also struggle with our relationships with like accountants or bookkeepers is because we don’t understand what they’re saying if they don’t have like a teaching kind of philosophy like your firm does. It’s very disempowering. And when you have those interactions that are confusing, it just kind of reaffirms the negative story that many therapists have that they don’t understand numbers and they’re dumb about this stuff and they don’t know what they’re doing. And it just kind of is even more disempowering. So I’m a big fan of like, get your feet grounded in it, understand the basics of what are happening, the foundations, and then you can like, hand it off. But like from a CEO empowered place rather than a like, I don’t know what I’m doing so I’m just going to get this big pile of receipts to somebody and hope that they’re doing right by me. 

Julie [00:24:59] Hope for the best. 

Linzy [00:25:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because many accountants are doing a great job for you. But yeah, there’s a very different energy to handing it off as like an empowered delegating task, rather than like giving up and hiding under your bed. Yeah,. 

Julie [00:25:13] Yeah, I agree. 

Linzy [00:25:15] So, Julie, I’m wondering what would be one piece of advice that you would give somebody listening who wants to start to improve their relationship with their finances? 

Julie [00:25:25] I think I have two. So I would say, don’t be an ostrich, take your head out of the sand and just look at what’s going on. There is so much power in that knowledge and knowing what’s happening in your business. So I would say, face it head on. I would love for any practice owner to be looking at their numbers at least monthly, because there’s a lot of people who will just wait till the end of the year and then put everything together. You spend the whole weekend putting everything together, and that’s good enough for taxes, right? So, can you get your taxes done that way? Yes, absolutely. For compliance purposes, you can, but you’re missing out on all the important data that your business is trying to give you if you’re not looking on a on a regular basis. And if you have that information, it’s just going to help you make data driven decisions. And in the business, that’s a really good thing. And I would also say, my second piece of advice is a lot of times when someone comes in to work with us or reaches out to us with a call for a consultation, they’ll say something along the lines of. I don’t understand what my current accountant is doing, they tell me, like, don’t worry about it, I’ll just take care of it, and I don’t know what that means. Is it handled? Is it not handled? Do I need to do something? So I would say, whether you work with with my team or someone else, look for someone who’s going to be a good fit for you. And if you don’t have a good fit right now, talk to someone else, right? There’s a lot of different accountants out there and you just ideally you want to work with someone who’s going to spend the time explaining things to you in a way that makes sense to you. That’s going to meet you where you are. I mean, that may cost more. It probably will. And if you just have a tax preparer and you need to reach out throughout the year, that’s probably going to cost you as well. But having that person in your corner is just such a- it should be an asset. You shouldn’t dread reaching out to that person. And once you have that person, talk to them before you make big financial decisions. So before you open up a retirement plan, talk to them, see what the tax consequences are or tax benefits like, is there something else that might work better for you before you get a loan or buy a building, or even sell your business. Talk to your accountant so that they can help guide you through those big decisions and maybe, hopefully shine a light on perhaps something that was a blind spot otherwise. 

Linzy [00:27:49] Yeah. Like when you have that person, use the resource. 

Julie [00:27:52] Yes. Yes. Like, it’s always worth reaching out to them. And that’s why a lot of accounting firms, including mine, have gone to have a flat monthly fee model, right? And it’s in part because we don’t want anyone to hesitate to reach out to us because it’s going to cost them to talk to us, like talk to your team. That’s exactly what they’re there for. 

Linzy [00:28:11] Yes. And I feel like that ties right back into the number one you talked about, like not ostriching, right? Like looking at these things and thinking about them as you go helps you make better decisions. 

Julie [00:28:20] Yes 

Linzy [00:28:22] Well, thank you so much, Julie, for people who want to hear more from you, where can they find you? Is there a social media channel you hang out on the most? 

Julie [00:28:31] Yes. So I would say go to greenoakaccounting.com. You can find out a whole lot about our services. You can even schedule a free consultation with my team. I also have a podcast called Therapy for Your Money, where I talk about all things money in finance for a private practice. So there is- Linzy you were a guest recently. So we have lots of great topics like compensation, tax saving tips, like there’s just a whole lot of different things that you can get on there as well. 

Linzy [00:29:00] Oh, so great. Awesome. So you can check out the links for those in the show notes below and check out Julie’s podcast. And thank you so much, Julie, for joining us today and showing us that accountants aren’t that scary. You’re, like, really nice and pleasant. 

Julie [00:29:13] We’re really nice. We’re very nice. Thanks for having me, Linzy it was a pleasure. 

Linzy [00:29:17] Thank you. 

Linzy [00:29:19] So something that I so appreciated in my conversation with Julie that actually almost caught me off guard a little bit when we were talking was that moment where she stopped and asked me what I thought about when people should delegate work to an accountant. And that is something that I so appreciate about Julie is that collaborative approach. She’s told me before that their accounting firm, she’s all about hiring accountants with the heart of teachers. You know, there’s more of that open, communicative back and forth. And I always appreciate that when I talk to Julie. If you want to hear more from Julie, her link is in the show notes, she has her own podcast. If you go to a greenoakaccounting.com, you’ll see the link down below. You can get on to her podcast where she digs into private practice finances as well. But from that specific account and perspective, which is definitely not my perspective, it’s so great that we have people in the world who like to do different things and have different gifts. It makes all of our lives and businesses richer. If you would like to hear more from me, you can follow Money Nuts & Bolts on Instagram @moneynutsandbolts. The link is in the show notes. And if you would like to get more into my world and would like help with your private practice finances and developing a better relationship with money, the best way to do that is to check out my masterclass. The link will be in the show notes. It’s the four step framework to getting your business finances totally in order, and my approach is that emotionally present, talking to you like a therapist, building these foundational skills to get your private practice really working for you and get money really working for you in your life. So if you want more of that, check out my masterclass and a link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening today.