Meet Heather Stevenson

Heather [00:00:02] I also see it as this, not being able to notice and just reflect on what they actually have and have achieved already whether that’s in life for a career status or a financial amount. The focus is always on what’s not there as opposed to what is. 

Linzy [00:00:28] Welcome to the Money Skills For Therapists podcast, where we answer this question How can therapists and health practitioners go from money shame and confusion, to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of the Course Money Skills For Therapists. Hello and welcome back to the Money Skills For Therapists podcast. So this is our final episode of Season three. I’ve got these seasons to give myself some breathing room and a break. It’s nice to be able to share a kind of a group of episodes with you folks and then stop and take a breather. I know for me and the way that I’m wired, that it’s essential. So if you listen to episodes as you go, this is your chance to to like take a break, take a breather, enjoy the summer. I’ve been joking lately that summer in Ontario is like 5 minutes long. It certainly feels that way. So this year, I’ve been really trying to be more present in summer and enjoying my home and enjoying the weather and enjoying my son. And I’m going to say I’m really enjoying it. It’s going really well. So taking a break from podcast, we will be back in the fall. And if you’re listening to this later and it’s already the fall or there’s already a whole bunch of other Money Skills For Therapists episodes after this one, you can disregard this because you’re already at the season four point. So today’s podcast guest is Heather Stevenson. Heather should have been on this podcast like two seasons ago because she is the coach in Money Skills For Therapists who supports me in supporting the therapists who are going through the course. She’s a graduate of Money Skills For Therapists. She is a therapist who supports folks in New York City and California. And today she’s talking about the people that she specifically tends to support in her private practice, who are overachievers. So if you identify as an overachiever or suspect, you might be an overachiever. If you find yourself in your head a lot, if like nothing you do is really ever good enough, you’re always like striving for more. If you set a goal and then as soon as you hit that goal, it’s like, Well, that goal must have been easy because I hit it. Therefore, I’m going to set this harder goal. This episode is going to be of great interest to you. Heather talks about how overachieving and money tend to relate. The relationship that overachievers tend to have with money. She gives us a nice zoomed out picture of overachieving and money, but then we also really get into the specifics of some small, tangible things that overachievers can do today to start to shift their relationship with money. Here is my conversation with Heather Stevenson. All right, Heather, welcome to the podcast. 

Heather [00:03:15] Thanks for having me, Linzy, I’m excited to be here. 

Linzy [00:03:17] Yes. So this conversation, this podcast recording, is long overdue because you are actually the coach in Money Skills For Therapists. I can’t believe it’s season three and I’m actually just having you on now, so. 

Heather [00:03:31] I can’t either. I can’t believe you’re in season three already. I mean, you’ve been banging it out. 

Linzy [00:03:36] To be fair they’re short seasons, it’s like a dozen episodes. Gives me a little buffer. So it’s not we’re not talking big seasons, but I’m so glad to finally have you here. So as I mentioned, for folks listening, Heather is the coach in Money Skills For Therapists. So Heather, you’re a grad of Money Skills For Therapists from a couple of years ago. You graduated. 

Heather [00:03:55] 2020. 

Linzy [00:03:57] Yeah. And now you’ve you’ve been a coach in the course now for like a year and a half. 

Heather [00:04:01] Yeah. So I see how time flies, you know. 

Linzy [00:04:04] It does. It does. So I’m so excited to have you on here today to talk about a topic that’s near and dear to your heart. And that certainly applies to me as a human. And I’m sure many people who are listening to the podcast, which is overachievers. And money and overachievers. So I think this is like the population you tend to work with in your clinical work, is that correct? 

Heather [00:04:23] Yes, absolutely. 

Linzy [00:04:25] And I know that there are potential musings in the future of expanded offers around this. So overachievers listen up: Heather Stevenson, pay attention to her. But I wanted to dig in with you today about money and overachievers and how these things kind of go together. So for you in your work with overachievers, what have you noticed about how money shows up for people who tend to be overachievers? 

Heather [00:04:47] So, you know, it’s interesting because I see it sometimes playing out in different ways, but there’s for sure a lot of themes. And I think the biggest one that I tend to see from people is this sort of feeling and belief of there’s always got to be more or there’s never enough, or that sort of have to keep climbing the ladder to try to hit some magical number or some either ‘need to make this amount in my income’ or ‘I need to have this much in savings’. But there’s always the never enough kind of feeling this constant quest. Right. That doesn’t ever seem to have the end point that they’re hoping for. 

Linzy [00:05:29] It’s like a moving target or. 

Heather [00:05:32] A moving target. 

Linzy [00:05:33] Give them the reward they want. When they do get to that point. Yeah, they’ll just the number will go up. 

Heather [00:05:37] Exactly. Yeah. Yes. It just keeps changing and so it’s definitely a moving target and I really see this. It doesn’t even matter how much money a person is making or how much they have saved. Like I see people on a broad spectrum. And so this shows up with people who are already making multiple six figures a year and still feeling this way or trying to work their way towards seven figures a year, or have huge savings accounts of tens of thousands of dollars. And so, yeah, it’s always interesting to kind of pick up on and notice how it’s how it’s really showing up. And there’s that feeling of that’s kind of this inadequacy sort of internally, never enough. 

Linzy [00:06:18] No matter how much there is, there’s never enough. And I’m curious how they’re like, have you noticed any patterns in what that might look like in terms of like somebody’s career or their relationship to work? Like, how does that like kind of show up or ripple out into their life, I guess. 

Heather [00:06:31] MM Yeah. So the other way I describe these folks that I see a lot is kind of the workaholic, sometimes a bit of a perfectionist in that they’re just so focused in that realm around work, career, getting to a certain level in business or not being able to take breaks or give themselves time off and really kind of enjoy life because they’re so focused on, I’ve got to hit whatever that metric is that they decided for themselves that it seems like they’re they’re really out of balance in their life. And they’re not kind of living as fully or as fully as they would like to, that they think that magic number is going to give them. But it never does. 

Linzy [00:07:15] Right. So the fantasy is once they make that number, then life will become like fulfilling or rich or whatever they’re looking for. Yes. Interesting. So, I mean, it sounds like and I mean, I say this as somebody who probably has been an overachiever for most of my life. Recovery? Question mark?

Heather [00:07:32] Yeah, same. 

Linzy [00:07:33] Yeah. Is it sounds like when this is really activity around money like work can kind of become the center of your life or like be over prioritized over other things because there is this like quest to hit whatever arbitrary goal you’ve set for yourself. 

Heather [00:07:49] Yeah. I also see it as this not being able to notice and just reflect on what they actually have and have achieved already with that in life or a career status or a certain financial amount. You know.

Linzy [00:08:04] You’re hurting me, Heather, this is like too personal. 

Heather [00:08:08] It’s the focus is always on what’s not there. As opposed to what is. 

Linzy [00:08:15] Right. Okay. Okay. And I’m curious, do you see any, like, variations in how this shows up like, say, between like genders or or race or anything like that? 

Heather [00:08:24] Yeah, some- I do sometimes. So I try to avoid the general blanket statements like this applies to everyone, obviously. But I’ve spent a lot of time really working with men for a long time and that was my passion and really just focused on that. But I also have a lot of women in my practice as well, and so it’s like the same kind of issue really playing out, looking slightly different I think, between folks who are more male identified versus female identified. And so for guys, it’s often this like drive to prove yourself, to really keep climbing the ladder. I’ve got to get to the next promotion or the next income bracket or the next thing. This sort of feeling of I have to keep showing up in this certain way. Whereas for women I often see it as I’m really not feeling worthy enough. In particular, if I ask for more money or if I ask for a raise, or maybe if I’m told no, there’s often this feeling of I don’t want to take up that space and ask for more. Or if I’m sort of not met there, it’s this very strong personal feeling. 

Linzy [00:09:34] Right. So it sounds like like women or people with more female energy like would pursue it or want it, but we also don’t feel as entitled to it exactly. And are more likely to like personalize or like have shame if… 

Heather [00:09:47] Yes. 

Linzy [00:09:48] …there’s some barrier or somebody doesn’t recognize how hard we’re working or how much we’re accomplishing. 

Heather [00:09:52] Yeah. And I think the thing that I see on all sides is, at least with this particular population, is this difficulty around setting boundaries and about being able to kind of acknowledge that it’s okay to stop and sort of let things just be for a little while without always having to keep showing up or overdoing something or taking it all on. Yeah. And that really seems to be across the board, right? 

Linzy [00:10:23] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I’m hearing we’re talking here about how this overachieving shows up with money, but I’m guessing money is not the root of this. What do you notice are kind of like the deeper things that are going on or that go with this this overachieving and drive around money? 

Heather [00:10:42] Yeah, because here I am talking about how it can show up at work and play out at work. And yet it’s all just- to me it’s like it’s all just what’s living on the surface versus what’s really underneath and what’s happening at that deeper level. And so for the folks that I tend to work with, there is often a very highly intellectualized or overthinking component. They’re really in their heads a lot and not necessarily down in their body or really in there with their feelings. So there’s a lot of disconnect. And so the money is never just about money. It’s it’s always about something deeper. It’s always about something more emotional. I mentioned just a little bit earlier the kind of self-worth or feelings of inadequacy that can come up all of all of this stuff that really lives in the emotional body, that these type of folks who I see the most are just really cut off from and they’re not accessing and they’re not paying attention to. So there might be a non kind of felt sense of safety a lot of the time. Is it safe in my body or is it safe to feel, is it safe to feel my emotions or is it safe to feel in my body? Or do I have this sense of trust with myself and how I’m going to show up in the world or trust that things will work out for me or trust that things will be okay. And I don’t have to work as hard as I have in the past. A lot of the times this can come back to this kind of what I tend to see most often over parental side, early childhood experience, having to really step up and kind of take on more responsibility or more roles in some way from a young age. And so that kind of this gotten drilled in really early on. And then I also tie a lot of that in because this is how I tend to work to attachment styles and this kind of insecure attachment correlation that I just see over and over and over again. 

Linzy [00:12:49] Between, like, overachievers and insecure attachment. 

Heather [00:12:51] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And there are many piece of like, yeah, these really maybe more anxiously kind of attached and worried about that. That anxiousness might also show up in their money behaviors or if they’re more avoidant attachment that also might show up. 

Linzy [00:13:07] Yes, maybe with money there is a relationship. Yes. Right. So like our way of kind of coping or protecting ourselves translates into that relationship. 

Heather [00:13:17] Exactly. 

Linzy [00:13:18] I wonder I’d be really curious if maybe one day one of us will do research on this about how much our like general attachment style translates over to money, like whether it’s almost always the same or whether we can have like very different attachment styles between like our relationships, you know, like a partner, not our relationship with money. Because I think based on like your money experiences, maybe you could have like a lot of, you know, there could be distinction between those two. But I suspect often the way we cope is the way we cope. 

Heather [00:13:45] Mm hmm. I mean, the way I see it, there seems to be such a strong overlap. Yeah, absolutely. 

Linzy [00:13:51] Yeah, yeah. Makes sense to me. 

Heather [00:13:52] And so it would be interesting to see if there was a whole lot of difference there. Yeah. I mean, I would love to do that kind of research. 

Linzy [00:14:02] For your next Ph.D.. 

Heather [00:14:03] Yes, save that for someone else. 

Linzy [00:14:07] So for folks then who are in this situation, so who are kind of up in their heads. Not sure if they really want to even be in their bodies and feel things right in this. Like very overachieving, like the energy that I imagine is an energy that sometimes I notice with myself when anxiety comes into my relationship with money, and sometimes I see this with our students in the course is like this very like, Ugh, like you’re really- people can’t see me because this is a podcast, but I’m, I’m making the face that accentuates my “thinkles”, which I’ve also learned are called Elevens, which is the lines like, you know, right kind of in the middle of my forehead that like- where you’re just like all of your energy is concentrated like right into the front of your brain and you’re just so stuck up in your head. And I see that so often with the folks that we support, the therapists in Money Skills For Therapists, where it’s such like a overwhelm in your head, all the energy is up there. So I’m curious for folks who are listening right now and they’re like, Yeah, that’s me. When when you were saying earlier, like, is it is it safe? Can I trust? In my head there is voice going, nope, nope, nope. Like my inner overachiever is like, mm mm mm. So for folks who are listening and resonating with this, like, what are some things that they can start to do to address, you know, these tendencies and how it shows up around money? 

Heather [00:15:16] Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it’s funny, before I even answer that, what just kind of was coming up as you were talking about all of that is how it feels like it also really maps onto, for me, those concepts of abundance versus scarcity. 

Linzy [00:15:30] Yeah. Yeah. 

Heather [00:15:31] Because the abundance mindset is there’s always enough there’s more than enough food, plenty for everyone. Just as the scarcity of not being enough and not having enough. And that real fear of like, is everything going to be okay? It’s the same kind of thing that’s showing up, right? And so when we can kind of first drop into our body and actually just sort of discover, Hey, I’ve got one. It’s down here, it has a whole constellation of feelings and emotions. 

Linzy [00:16:06] Holding up my head the whole time. 

Heather [00:16:08] It’s startling to me. And then at the same time not surprising how often I will sit with folks and they have no awareness whatsoever of their body, their neck. Yeah. You know, and so the first step is always just like, we’ve got to drop down and we’ve got to learn how to just sit with and feel and explore the terrain of our body and our sensations and then our emotional experience. And so I do a lot of that with folks of like, first, we’ve just got to slow down and start to get comfortable and familiar with that space and see what that is. And then a lot of it is also like, can we tolerate learning how to sit with when it feels uncomfortable and it doesn’t feel good? Yes. When scarcity is there, when the feeling of it’s not enough or, you know, I’ve got to hit that next level. What’s actually like where is that in your body? Where is that showing up? And how do you sit there with it and kind of make friends with it and explore it a little bit? And so I usually really start there with folks just to kind of make that bridge. And from there, we’ll often go into things like self-compassion practice, or learning how to kind of move towards a more secure attachment, maybe even doing some like re parenting inner child kind of work with people that are up for that. A whole variety of things. 

Linzy [00:17:37] Oh, sure. Well, and I think, you know, like the work that you do as a therapist and the work that we do with folks in Money Skills overlaps. Right. And makes me think about the work that we do with folks in some of the conversations we have behind the scenes, which just like helping people slow down, like actually feel there are successes and wins and like normalize that this is hard, you know, and, and allow people to make space for those feelings and not have to, like, push through them, you know, because I think that’s so often an ignored part of money in general, you know, which is why we talk about it so much, is that if you’re not actually in touch with those body sensations and you’re just kind of kind of power through with your mind, which is what overachievers tend to try to do. Yes, you have these parts of you that you’re almost dragging behind you. Right. Like the the scared part and the anxious part and the ashamed part. And if you’re not actually, like, letting those emotions have release or being present with them, then eventually they’re going to catch up to you and it’ll be overwhelming. And you know, what we often see is folks avoid or whatever that emotional experience is going to be, but it’s like you’re not you’re not actually having an integrated experience with money until you bring your body online. 

Heather [00:18:43] Yes. And this is something that I had to go through firsthand myself to really even get to those next layers with. You know, I’ve done lots of- I love money stuff, but I love learning about it, money, psychology, talking about it and doing different programs. I did yours. I’ve done Lean In Make Bank. I’ve done a variety of things, but I really got to see firsthand the practical skills only took me so far. I need those practical skills, right? But without really getting at that emotional piece and that embodied piece, it was only- it felt like half the equation. And half was missing. And so it was very much that kind of sense of it only takes you so far to just do that from the head level. And to have that fuller- again, it’s like that full whole body experience. Got to address the whole body of who we are. 

Linzy [00:19:37] Yes. Yeah. And something that makes me think about is just like that that takes time. Right. Like, I think our bodies, you can’t just, like, tell your body like you’re safe now. Your body’s, like, okay. Right. Like, it has to be this kind of recurrent experience of, like, taking in information, whatever that is. If it’s if it’s like, helping yourself learn to be safe. It’s like you have to take in that experience of noticing that the money’s there, noticing that like you, it keeps happening, that you have all these skills, that people appreciate what you do. You have to like notice it kind of over and over and over, I think because you’re overwriting like really deep, deep stories and like and traumas and experiences. 

Heather [00:20:16] Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of my teachers says – I love this line – is move at the speed of trust. And it’s just such a beautiful reminder that our brain wants to move so fast most of the time, especially for this kind of population who are fast thinkers, racing thoughts, really good at thinking through things. So it’s that quick, quick pace. But our body and the emotional level is a totally different speed, a different pace. And moving at that speed of trust is really the kind of gets at that like neurobiology. Like our our nervous system wiring is so different. And so it is really relearning and and doing things in these, as you say, like these deep grooves, in a different way to integrate the two. And that often seems to be the hardest part for folks. Is that slow down. 

Linzy [00:21:13] Totally. Well, I. I don’t know if on social media you’ve like heard this clip. There’s there’s this song, Vienna by Billy Joel, which is an old song, but there’s these covers that are going around. I think there’s a couple of different covers by like female artists. And the lyrics have become my own little personal mantra lately, and the words arw: slowdown, you’re doing fine, you can’t be everything you want to be before your time. And like, even when I say it, it gives me a little body chills, because I think in our culture and when you are an overachiever or like for so many reasons, we try to make life go fast and we try to make money go fast. We try to hit our goals fast. And like, sometimes I even notice myself and I wonder, like, do I think I’m not going to be able to work in like two years or five years or ten years? Like, what do I think I’m going to be doing? But this feeling that I, that I need to get there and I see it in my peers too. Like I see it in my business friends. I see it in so many therapists that we work with because I think we attract high achievers for some reason. I don’t know why. But it’s like just reminding myself, like, slow down, like life is now, right? And that can be really hard to do because I think there’s so many forces that make us want to go fast. 

Heather [00:22:20] Yeah. And yet at the same time, isn’t it- you know, I don’t know how it goes exactly, but people are saying it’s always like fast money is going to go just as fast. 

Linzy [00:22:28] Oh I haven’t heard that one. Yeah. 

Heather [00:22:30] Yeah. And so yeah if it comes in too quickly you cannot- like people will do things unconsciously to make it disappear again and go away. Lottery winners, you know. 

Linzy [00:22:44] Yes. 

Heather [00:22:45] It will go just as quickly because you have not integrated and similarly kind of built your way to a more sustainable place. And that only comes through time and repetition, practice, being really present. 

Linzy [00:23:00] And it makes you think about meaning too. Like as we’re talking about this, which is like one of my like driving values is being connected to like the richness behind things. And I think when you, when you earn money regularly, slowly, through things that you’re building and you’re really feeling that experience, like you integrate the work that it took, you’re like, This is my money that I made a appear. And I think I wonder if there’s more kind of reverence or respect or meaning behind that money, like, you’re not going to waste it on something dumb when it’s like, you know, something that has- I don’t know it’s yeah the pace. I don’t know what it is, Heather, but like, I totally understand what you’re saying. Whereas when money appears fast, it makes it seem like money could appear fast again. It kind of devalues it. There’s not a lot of meaning if something happens fast, like if you’re gifted $50,000, you’re much more likely to just like spend it on like a new car and a trip. And it’s going to be gone because it’s like there isn’t that like meaning or richness or-. 

Heather [00:23:48] Connection. 

Linzy [00:23:49] Connection. Yeah. I was going to say work, which I think is getting into like my Protestant work ethic, my stories that have been passed down. But there is something about it’s like money you’ve gotten to know. 

Heather [00:24:00] Yes. And I mean, I just love the word reverence so much. One of my favorite words, because it has that sense of connection and the feeling to it, which is what so much of this is tied to, is if you don’t have that connection, if there is the disconnect, then you know, you’ll never be able to make those changes and hold on to it. 

Linzy [00:24:24] Yeah. And what I’m hearing from you in terms of overachievers is there is this disconnect. There’s the mind body disconnect. Right. Or there’s the disconnect from, you know, our accomplishments. Right. Where you hit a number and they’re like, well, that number was too easy. Next number. Right. And so that disconnect, I think. Yeah, connection, disconnection. There’s a lot of things of that as we’re thinking about overachievers. 

Heather [00:24:45] Yeah, I just literally had somebody tell me that last week who I was working with, who’s talking about I’m on this path to seven figures. I feel like I’ve got to get there and then when I get there, things will be good. I was able to just say also, and yet I’ve never felt good about anything I’ve done so far. 

Linzy [00:25:05] So why would that be different. 

Heather [00:25:07] How is this going to really work out for you? 

Linzy [00:25:10] Totally. 

Heather [00:25:11] And I think planning that out that, you know, wait a minute. Yes. You’re being a little antithetical here, what’s going on, and just start to bring that awareness 

Linzy [00:25:21] Totally. And this is like a theme that I’ve talked about on this podcast before and that I think about a lot. And just this week, I made a post in Money Skills about this, which is like life is now, right? Like enjoy your life now. And if you’re not building those muscles to enjoy life now and be present with your successes now and be laughing with your friends now, that’s not going to magically happen when you hit some arbitrary goal. 

Heather [00:25:43] Right? 

Linzy [00:25:43] Presence is kind of like an ongoing skill. 

Heather [00:25:46] That is. 

Linzy [00:25:47] That we need to be cultivating. 

Heather [00:25:47] Yeah. And it’s sad to me. How much we’ve lost our ability to play and have fun and just be free. 

Linzy [00:25:59] Yes. 

Heather [00:26:00] And I think that really it does come in from that early parentification when you don’t get to play and have fun in childhood, you don’t learn those vital skills. 

Linzy [00:26:12] Absolutely. 

Heather [00:26:13] Just how to really to live and be in the moment. That’s I mean, kids are amazing at that and they don’t have to try. 

Linzy [00:26:20] So. 

Heather [00:26:21] Yes, happens. 

Linzy [00:26:23] And certainly for me as an overachiever, this is something that I’ve been consciously and unconsciously doing. Having my son, who’s three, is like, we play a lot and I really let myself play because I don’t- as a child, I have memories of kind of playing, but they feel a little fraught at the same time. It’s so nice to just like just be and just play because also those moments are fleeting. I think, too, as an adult, I know that, you know, like childhood is short, this kind of- and even the types of play that he does are going to change. But just allowing myself that presence, because that does feel very meaningful, having an overachiever streak in myself as well. 

Heather [00:26:57] Yeah. And so the thing I always like to talk about with people and kind of create this shift around is that again, it’s never about the money. It’s not about hitting an income goal or a certain number of things. But a rich life is rich in all of these ways outside of just dollars and cents. 

Linzy [00:27:19] Yes. 

Heather [00:27:20] And when we feel into an experience, the richness of life through play, the creativity or just having open space or being present, then you’re really like living it and embodying it every single day. It can be so moment to moment like that, that you get off that workhorse of always pushing yourself. 

Linzy [00:27:45] Yeah, yeah. Because you’re you’re already here like you’re already in your life. That’s not a destination for later. 

Heather [00:27:51] Yeah. 

Linzy [00:27:51] So, Heather, I’m curious for folks who are listening to you right now, if they were just to do like one little thing, what would almost be like a little starter thing that they could do if they’re an overachiever and they notice they’re kind of in their head or they’re focused on the future, like what would be like a fun little thing that they could try or like a first step to start to move towards what we’re just talking about here, more of that embodied, present, playful place. 

Heather [00:28:16] Yeah. To me, the simplest thing is always just to do like a body check in and to really just start to in the moment notice what you notice. I think for people who are really disembodied, we’re not connected. The easier way to do this is really like grounding into either what’s actually around you, kind of supporting you, holding you up, or what is around you kind of in space. What do you – like really stop and look and take in what you see and notice these things because it’s all about these minute small moments that are just getting passed over every day on the rush to do the next thing, do the next thing. So whether that’s doing a body scan, kind of where you’re going like from top of your head down to your toes and checking in with your body, and noticing whether it’s tense or tight or doing a kind of scan around the room just to start to bring more awareness in is always a really great place to absolutely begin. 

Linzy [00:29:22] And it’s just just little steps. 

Heather [00:29:24] Yeah. I mean, that’s. Yes. The smaller, the better, I always say to people. The big leap is not better. Smaller is better. Yes. 

Linzy [00:29:34] Agreed. Agreed. Well, Heather, it’s been so wonderful having you on the podcast today. And I’m I’m curious if I could shift gears for you for a second. Of course, for folks who are listening now who’ve maybe been, you know, following me or Money Skills for a while and thinking about the course, but they haven’t kind of pulled the trigger. It’s such a violent term. They haven’t taken the leap. 

Heather [00:29:57] Yes. 

Linzy [00:29:58] Or the baby step, whatever. Well, I’m curious, like, what would you say to them? Because you’ve gone through the experience of doing the course, now you’re coaching the course. What would be your words to someone who’s thinking about the course but not sure? 

Heather [00:30:10] It’s funny because I think I will answer this differently now than I would have back when I had finished up or even a year ago. Because back then I would have said, you know, like, just do it. It’s so amazing. And you’re going to get so much out of it, take the leap and it will meet you there. But I think now, as I’m really also myself trying to embody more of this slow down embodiment practice, like feel in to when it’s right for you because the course will be here. The program will be here. We know it’s fantastic and gonna help you out. But if you’re not in the place where you’re ready to show up and kind of do that work and give it that energy. It’s not going to be as helpful or effective. 

Linzy [00:30:58]  Right thing. Right time. 

Heather [00:31:00] Yeah, exactly. 

Linzy [00:31:01] I love that very sage advice. So feel into it. Check in with your body, your wisdom, and when you’re ready, we’re here. We’re ready to walk you slowly through the steps. Thank you so much, Heather. For folks who want to get further into your world. Where is the best place for them to find you and follow you? 

Heather [00:31:20] Yeah. So I’m not a huge social media person, although I do have social media accounts, so you can find me on Instagram @DrHStevenson I’ll say that I’m not on there a ton, so probably the best way truly is just through email, through my website, because it’s definitely going to come through to me. I will always check that and see that. If you want to connect on Instagram, it’s a little outdated and I might not see it right away. 

Linzy [00:31:49] Okay. Okay. So email. So we will put your website in the show notes so folks can find you and always reach out if they want to connect. And you are in New York City. You’re doing therapy in New York City. 

Heather [00:32:00] Yeah. 

Linzy [00:32:01] And you’re in Money Skills For Therapists. So if you want more of Heather, you can also join us in the course and get lots of both of us for success. 

Heather [00:32:06] We talk about this every month on our Money Mindset Seminar and I love it. It’s so fun. Yes. Yeah. Please come on in. 

Linzy [00:32:14] Awesome. Thank you so much, Heather, for joining me. 

Heather [00:32:16] Thank you, Linzy. 

Linzy [00:32:30] I really enjoyed this conversation with Heather Stevenson. And also, as I said, a couple of points in the conversation, it felt very personal. Being a recovering-ish overachiever myself and having done the work that I have done and am doing in my own life to be present, be in my body, just enjoy the now, not be focused on the future. I think what we just talked about today, I’m sure, connects for a lot of you, because I do notice in many schools we tend to get a lot of overachievers, probably because you feel my overachiever vibes pulling you in. So I’m hoping that there are some helpful pieces today to get you thinking about it. And this is something that we do talk about a lot. And Money Skills For Therapists, as we said, is just helping folks to like slow down, feel your body, feel the discomfort, take care of yourself in the discomfort, because that also allows you to feel the wins. You know, when we are tuning out the difficult things that are happening in our body, the anxiety or the shame or the fear. We’re also tuning out the joy and the excitement, right? When we’re not present in our body, we’re just not present. So something that I found for myself and for therapists going through Money Skills For Therapists is when you do take the time to start to be present in your body and feel what’s happening while also engaging your brain as you’re learning these skills and working on these things, having that integrative experience of being present in your body and having your brain online really does shift your relationship with money and also create a capacity for joy with money and excitement and possibility that a lot of the graduates who’ve come on for coaching episodes, I found a lot of them have talked about that happening for them, and I think so much of that is about being present and letting those difficult emotions start to like shift and heal and get caught up to the present. So then you could also feel the positive emotions, like the satisfaction of having hit a goal, right? Or the joy of rewarding yourself for something and actually feeling the reward. All of that involves getting back in your body. So super important stuff that Heather was talking about today. So that concludes season three of the podcast. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. It really means a lot to me. This is actually the way that I really enjoy connecting and sharing my thoughts and learnings and ideas about money is in this kind of more quiet, thoughtful format. So thank you for joining me and listening to the podcast. We’ve been so, so pleased and touched by how much folks are enjoying the podcast and sharing that with us. And just seeing you folks listening to every week really means a lot. So thank you so much for being part of our podcast community. And if you are listening right now and it is the summer and you’re at the end of season three, enjoy your end of your summer. I hope that you can also, as we talked about in this episode, slow down, tune into your body, enjoy what’s happening in your world, take in all the good stuff that might be around you that’s easy to miss. And I so look forward to connecting with you again when season four comes out in just a month and change. If you want to stay in touch, especially between podcast seasons, you can follow me on Instagram @moneynutsandbolts. We share practical and emotional money content on there every week. And if you’re enjoying the podcast, I know I’ve said it so many times that please do jump over to Apple Podcasts and leave me a review. It really means a lot, and it is the best way for therapists who want to be part of these conversations to find me. Thanks for listening.