Meet Margaret Pendergrass

[00:00:00] Margaret: I guess there’s a thought that’s coming up that if I have those boundaries, and I’m not available for my clients, that they’ll leave. which… I know logically, right? If I say it out loud, logically, I know that’s not true.I know that’s just my anxiety coming up. But, that story is still there for me.

[00:00:25] Linzy: Welcome to the Money Skills for Therapists podcast, where we answer this question: how can therapists and health practitioners go from money, shame and confusion to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach, and creator of the course Money Skills for Therapists..

[00:00:50] Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. So today we have our coaching episode with listener Margaret Pendergrass. Margaret is a new private practice owner in Roswell, Georgia. After being in group practice for a long time, she stepped out on her own. She specializes in grief, chronic illness, and caregiver support, and sees about 20 clients a week.

[00:01:12] So in our conversation today, Margaret and I dug into this question of, once you’ve hit your initial goals in your practice, right… Once you’ve hit the goal that you were like, okay, this is where I want to be, and in her case, even faster than planned, then what do you do next? What do you focus on next?

[00:01:28] So we dig into that question, talking specifically about. her life with her daughter having leukemia, that being in the picture and coming up, we get into her values both as a business owner and a person, and dig into how her practice can specifically support her and her values. And we talk a lot about boundaries as well, along the way, holding boundaries with clients and around her schedule, and kind of all of the pieces that come up around that.

[00:01:55] Here is my conversation with Margaret Pendergrass.

[00:02:14] Linzy: So Margaret, welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:16] Margaret: Thank you for having me.

[00:02:18] Linzy: Yeah. Thank you for being here. So, Margaret, this is, I think it’s my second episode now of recording a coaching episode with a listener, like someone I haven’t worked with before. So thank you for being up, for coming, and chatting with me on the podcast today. Can you tell me, Margaret, what you’re coming in with today?

[00:02:37] What do you want to focus our time on?

[00:02:39] Margaret: Yeah, so I am fairly new to private practice. I really only went into kind of having my own private practice, really just a few months ago, and it’s been going really well. And I’ve met my initial goals and I’m looking at figuring out what’s next. And so I have about a thousand ideas that I have all thrown at the dartboard, and then all crossed off again.

[00:03:04] And so I have some goals. I’ve got some, some kind of values. I’m an acceptance and commitment therapist, so I love values. And I just need help figuring out between those things, what is it that I really need to be prioritizing.

[00:03:18] Linzy: Okay.

[00:03:19] Margaret: Because I have a lot.

[00:03:20] Linzy: Sure. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So tell me about where you are right now in your practice. Like what is the level you’ve gotten to? What is that original goal that you’ve now hit?

[00:03:28] Margaret: Yeah, so my original goal was just to get to around what I considered full. Which is funny because it’s like once you hit something then, of course, you move it.

[00:03:37] Linzy: The goalpost.

[00:03:38] Margaret: right?

[00:03:38] Linzy: Yep. Classic. Classic. Okay.

[00:03:41] Margaret: I wanted to get to around 20 clients a week. And so that’s where I’m at and I wanted to also feel pretty comfortable with the flow in of new referrals, and that’s something that I feel comfortable with.

[00:03:55] And so both of those kinds of goals were met pretty quickly.

[00:03:59] Linzy: Yeah.

[00:04:00] Margaret: So I feel very comfortable with those two things.And I immediately was like, okay, well maybe I need to shift that to maybe I can see more clients, or maybe I need to do groups or…

[00:04:11] Linzy: Yes, okay.

[00:04:12] Margaret: I was immediately like, okay, I need to, again, shift things and move things.

[00:04:17] Linzy: The endless more popped up by the sounds of it. Yes. Okay. Okay. So this is a beautiful opportunity. It’s a nice spot for you to actually be pausing because I think this is where we can be tempted to just add more, more, and more, and more… More clients. As you say, adding groups… It sounds to me like your first idea for more is putting more of your energy into this business by doing more. So that’s an option; that’s on the table. But I am curious, as you’re thinking about these other goals and values, what else are you noticing coming up now that you’ve hit this initial goal in your business?

[00:04:50] Margaret: Yeah. So, one of the things that I really wanted to do when I went into private practice was to have better work-life balance.That was one of the values that I had going in. And so one of the things that I’ve thrown around is maybe not working nights anymore. I still work one night a week, which is an improvement, but maybe not working nights, or I work every other Sunday.

[00:05:18] So maybe not working Sundays.and having that time back. Maybe moving my schedule around. So right now, currently, I’m back to back, so I’m, I see a client eight to nine, and then nine to 10, and then 10 to 11. So maybe reworking it. So I have small breaks in between or something like that.

[00:05:37] So balance, I think, is the value there that I’ve really been maybe neglecting a little.

[00:05:43] Linzy: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I’m curious about that; my brain goes in a few different directions at once, but the question that I feel like could be a helpful place to start is ,like, where’s the pain right now? Like what are the things about your schedule that are interfering with your life or that you don’t like, or are depleting you?

[00:05:57] Margaret: Yeah. I think a helpful thing to know is that I, I have a daughter, I have a daughter. she just turned three and she throws a lot of monkey wrenches into my

[00:06:08] Linzy: Oh, they do.

[00:06:09] Margaret: And so Yeah, so every time my schedule gets in a really good place, she comes along and messes it up. So, you know every time I’m like, okay, I think I like this schedule.

[00:06:20] She comes along and messes it up. She also has some health needs. So she has leukemia. She goes in for cancer treatments all the time, and she has frequent hospitalizations And so all the time weekly to bi weekly, my schedule is changing, and so I’m always shifting clients around and moving things.

[00:06:42] And so every time I feel like I can, well, maybe I can stop nights, maybe I can not work Fridays, then something like that comes along, and I need to move clients there, or I won’t be able to fit them in that week.

[00:06:55] Linzy: Yeah.

[00:06:56] Margaret: And so I feel this, this like tug in both directions.

[00:06:59] Linzy: Yeah. It sounds like, so there’s like a health crisis that will come up, and then your schedule has to be shuffled, and you move folks within that week so you don’t lose the income. But then, your beautifully set schedule is immediately just like cast to the side. Yes.

[00:07:14] Okay. Okay. So I mean, that also makes me curious. Given this piece in your life, like with your daughter having leukemia, being in cancer treatment, I’m curious about the 20 clients a week number. Is there a reason you set that particular number? Like, is there a reason your practice needs to look like that?

[00:07:32] Tell me more about what you need your practice to look like to meet your life needs.

[00:07:37] Margaret: Yeah. I guess I based that number off, the amount of income that brings in,

[00:07:41] Linzy: Yep.

[00:07:42] Margaret: And feeling comfortable with that amount of income being something closer to what I would like to make.Ideally, I do use the profit first model. So, making that amount of income and then taking half of that to actually use feels like a good amount.

[00:08:02] So that’s really where that number comes from.

[00:08:04] Linzy: Okay. Yeah. And then in the Profit First model, then you’re also spending maybe about 30 percent on operating expenses, 15 percent on taxes. Are all those numbers also working for your needs?

[00:08:14] Margaret: Yes, I do about 20 percent for taxes is about what I found I need to do. And then I do 5%. that I put away for like profit. but I also use it for taking a week off every quarter. I learned that from one of your masterclasses.

[00:08:32] Linzy: Yes. Yes.

[00:08:32] Margaret: That’s been very helpful.

[00:08:33] Linzy: It’s the best. I just took my kind of week off two weeks ago, and I was just home and I went on a minimalism kick, and I just started throwing out all my things and I was like, this feels great. It just feels great to be able to be a person every quarter. So I’m, yeah, that’s awesome.

[00:08:45] Okay. Yeah. The reason that I was asking about that is I’m just thinking of all of the unpredictability in your life. And also what I can only imagine is an immense amount of stress and emotional duress with having a child who is ill. Is that accurate to assume that that’s also in the picture?

[00:09:02] Margaret: Oh yes, definitely.

[00:09:04] Linzy: Cause with this, you said at the beginning too, there’s this piece around goals, and there’s also values. Tell me about your values. What, what is really important to you?

[00:09:13] Margaret: When it comes to the values that I want out of my career and my business,the most important thing to me is simplicity, something I don’t get a lot of, right now, but I do want. I don’t want to have a lot of complicated systems. So simplicity is number one. I think quality is number two. I want to be able to offer a good service.

[00:09:35] I want to be able to bring a good income for my family. And then number three is balance.

[00:09:43] Linzy: Okay, so balance is third. And tell me about your values in your life.

[00:09:47] Margaret: For me personally, my main value is strength because I think, you know, at least for this part of my life, that’s the most important thing that I can I think bring to the table for, for what I’m experiencing just between opening a new business and having a sick kid. This is, just a lot going on in my life.

[00:10:07] Linzy: Absolutely. Okay. So strength is your top. It sounds like a necessity, too, given where you are. What are other life values that are near the top for you?

[00:10:17] Margaret: Yeah, the other kind of ones that I focus on a lot are celebration.

[00:10:21] Linzy: Okay.

[00:10:21] Margaret: I love that one because it’s easy to forget to do in the, again with all the stress, I very easily find myself just giving into that, and irritability and anxiousness and forgetting to celebrate the little stuff. So celebration. Ease, that’s a big one. And then affection.

[00:10:43] Linzy: Okay.

[00:10:44] Margaret: Again, something that I forget to do. But that does make an enormous difference. when it’s there.

[00:10:50] Linzy: Okay. So, I want to focus on these things for a minute because I hear about the values in your business and that’s important. We’ll come back to those. But, part of what I’m hearing, too, is like, you’ve set up this private practice. It’s going really well. Like way faster than you could have anticipated.

[00:11:07] You are thinking about how it could be better. And then you’re also going through this really stressful season of life with your daughter. And I’m hearing that strength is an important value and a necessity. There’s also celebration, ease, affection. So one curiosity that I have, Margaret, is how can your business support you in having more celebration and ease and affection in your life?

[00:11:34] Margaret: Yeah. I think it goes back to that… the schedule.

[00:11:37] Linzy: Okay. So tell me about what the schedule could look like to support those things.

[00:11:42] Margaret: Yeah. I think about the schedule…I can’t help that it moves around so much. That’s something that’s out of my control, but I think I can set better boundaries around the schedule, even if sometimes there’s clients that I can’t see in a week.Having better boundaries will, in a given week, make a big difference to my quality of life and my ability to actually celebrate and be affectionate and show up.

[00:12:14] And it’s something I know I’ve struggled with is really setting those. And then even more than setting them, actually sticking by them.

[00:12:23] Linzy: Holding them. Yes. Okay. Okay.

[00:12:25] Margaret: Holding them. Yes.

[00:12:27] Linzy: What do those boundaries need to be? What are the boundaries that need to be put in place?

[00:12:31] Margaret: A hard cutoff time for when I stop seeing clients at the end of the day, probably earlier than I have it set now.

[00:12:38] Linzy: Yep.

[00:12:40] Margaret: To give me a little bit of a wiggle room before I pick up my daughter. So I’m not just running from work straight to get my daughter, straight to the madness of home life.

[00:12:50] Linzy: Okay. Yep. Yep.

[00:12:51] Margaret: And then I think maybe giving myself some permission to have most Fridays off.

[00:12:58] Linzy: Mm hmm.

[00:12:58] Margaret: I know there’ll be times where maybe that’s not fully possible. But again, giving myself at least Friday afternoons off,

[00:13:06] Linzy: Okay.

[00:13:07] Margaret: I already noticed myself backtracking.

[00:13:09] Linzy: Okay. Tell me what the backtracking is. What are you noticing? Like, just with being like, at least Friday afternoons? Friday is too much?

[00:13:15] Margaret: Exactly. Right.

[00:13:16] Linzy: Okay. Yes.

[00:13:17] Margaret: I already, I already noticed myself going back into that, like you’re asking for too much…

[00:13:23] Linzy: So that’s the belief. Cause I was wondering. Yeah. Like what is the thought or the belief underneath that? So you’re asking too much. Tell me about asking too much.

[00:13:30] Margaret: I think, it’s like if I, I guess there’s a thought that’s coming up that if I have those boundaries, and I’m not available for my clients, that they’ll leave.which. I know logically, right? If I say it out loud, logically, I know that’s not true.I know that’s just my anxiety coming up.

[00:13:51] But, but yeah, that story is still there for me.

[00:13:54] Linzy: Okay. And that story, like there’s a logical part of you that knows that’s probably not true, right? The part of you that doesn’t know that it’s untrue, that thinks your clients are going to leave if you’re not available Friday, or maybe Sunday, or in the evening. Tell me more about that story. Like, is there something feeding that story?

[00:14:15] Have you had bad experiences? Where does that idea come from that folks will leave if you’re not totally available? Right.

[00:14:21] Margaret: I only started going into private practice a couple of years ago, from leaving a nine to five job. And I went into it very slowly. At the time I didn’t take any insurance. I was only seeing clients private pay, and it took me a very long time to build any kind of caseload.

[00:14:42] For a long time I had one client, maybe one or two, maybe three. And it really stayed like that for quite some time. And it really only built up to be anything close to what it is now, I would say within the past few months. I mean, really my income has doubled within the past six ish months.

[00:15:03] And my referrals have doubled within the past six-ish months. So it feels hard to trust it.

[00:15:08] Linzy: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. This is relatively new compared to what you experienced before. And that can be hard to trust. And like another way that I think about that as well as it’s kind of like you haven’t caught up to yourself yet. Like there’s still a part of you there back in that one or two client place, having a hard time building a caseload.

[00:15:26] But what I’m hearing, you know, what you started by telling me at the beginning of our conversation is you’re at 20 clients a week, and there’s still a stream of referrals coming, right? Like you have built that over the last six months. That’s become a reality for you. Are you able to really connect with that?

[00:15:43] Like thinking about all the folks on your caseload, and the calls that you regularly get? Yeah.

[00:15:49] Margaret: It really took me a while to find the, like, confidence, right, that was, that was there, but it really took me a while to, to be able to speak with confidence about what I was doing. But now that I can, I think it’s really transformed how I talk with people, and then how they talk with other people.

[00:16:12] And that’s really made an enormous difference. It took me a long time to get to that point, so I think that really was a big contributor.

[00:16:21] Linzy: Okay, so now what I’m hearing is you can talk about what you do with confidence, so people understand what you do, people are able to tell other people about what you do, right? You’re building a reputation, and the demand is more than you can handle by the sounds of it at this point, right? And so that new reality, I wonder, like, if you let yourself trust that that is real, and it’s not just going to evaporate, like there’s not going to be mass amnesia tomorrow, and everybody will forget about their interactions with you, and, you know, what you do.

[00:16:51] Chances are tomorrow everybody will wake up with their same brains and they’ll be like, “Oh yeah, that was a great conversation I had with Margaret, I should tell my neighbor about her, they’d be a perfect fit.” All of those seeds that you’ve planted are growing, right? If you can trust that, tell me exactly, what do you want your schedule to look like to allow you to have this celebration and ease and affection in your life?

[00:17:16] Margaret: Yeah, I think I want to start a little bit later.

[00:17:20] Linzy: What time?

[00:17:20] Margaret: I think I don’t want to see anybody before 10am.

[00:17:24] Linzy: 10 a. m. is your start time. Okay. What’s your end time? Yeah.

[00:17:27] Margaret: think I want to be done by 4.

[00:17:30] Linzy: Love that for you. Okay. And Fridays off.

[00:17:36] Margaret: Fridays off. Yeah.

[00:17:38] Linzy: Fridays off. And tell me what you’re going to do on your Fridays. Let’s put something in. Because when we just take something away, there’s a vacuum. What is going to be happening in your Fridays that make those days as full and compelling as seeing clients?

[00:17:52] Margaret: Yeah, I think I’d like to write.

[00:17:54] Linzy: Those are your writing days.

[00:17:55] Yeah. And writing days, is that already a routine, or a habit that you have of writing?

[00:18:02] Margaret: No. No. It is just a pipe dream.

[00:18:05] Linzy: Great. You are at the pipe dream point of your life where you can make this happen, right? So that’s something to think about. And the reason I’m saying that, like, making it as compelling is when we, yeah, just take something away.

[00:18:17] When we just delete, it’s really hard to hold that boundary if somebody asks us, like, Hey, could I see you on Friday? If you’re like, if what you’re going to be doing is like wandering around your house, and being like, “Oh, what am I doing today?” That makes it really hard to protect that time because that time’s not sacred, right?

[00:18:32] But if this is your writing time, I’m curious, Margaret, what would that look like? What are your writing Fridays look like?

[00:18:40] Margaret: Mm hmm. Yeah, I think I would go to a coffee shop. And sit in a coffee shop. There’s a really great coffee shop not far from my office that I always mean to go to and I never go.

[00:18:51] Linzy: There you go. Okay. Okay. You’re going to go to the coffee shop and what time of day will you go to the coffee shop?

[00:18:56] Margaret: Yeah, probably early. Because I am an early person.

[00:18:59] Linzy: Early, like 8am? Okay. Okay. Like, 8am. Great. Okay. So on Fridays at 8am, you’re going to go to the coffee shop. How long are you going to stay there? Like, what’s a, what’s a good writing session for you?

[00:19:10] Margaret: I think probably like 3 to 4 hours.

[00:19:12] Linzy: You’re going to stay till about lunch. Okay. And then what about weekends? What are your weekends going to look like to make space for celebration and ease and affection?

[00:19:20] Margaret: Yeah, I think I want… yeah, I don’t think I want to think about work at all.

[00:19:25] Linzy: No work. Okay. Great. And what do you think this is going to mean for the quality? Because I’m hearing your values in your business are simplicity, quality, and balance. What would this schedule do for the quality of the work that you’re doing?

[00:19:38] Margaret: I mean, I think I would be able to be much more focused on my sessions because I wouldn’t be so stressed.

[00:19:45] stressed and focused on, oh my gosh, I’m going to work until eight o’clock tonight, or I’m exhausted, and have to run and pick up my daughter in 10 minutes, and I need to be wrapping this up, right?

[00:19:58] I would have the space there to just breathe, and let conversations happen more naturally.

[00:20:05] Linzy: Okay. Yeah. So you’re going to be more focused. You’re not going to be distracted. You had mentioned, too, this idea of like, not working back to back. Right? And I’m thinking about simplicity. So it makes me wonder about if you’re doing 20 clients a week, like if we’re going to stay at that number, which there’s a whole other conversation there, right?

[00:20:21] About potentially like fees and shifting and whatever… But let’s just work on the assumption that 20 is your full; you’re going to stay full. That’s five clients a day. Thinking about your value of simplicity. I’m wondering what would be a nice, simple schedule. Look like client appointment slots that allow you to see five folks a day in that 10 to four window that you want to be working.

[00:20:44] What would those spots be?

[00:20:45] Margaret: Yeah, I mean, I think I would like to have at least a 15 minute break in between. so that I’m not rushing my documentation, but I haven’t done the mental math to see how many hours that is.

[00:20:58] Linzy: Let’s do the math on paper. Okay. I’ve got a pen. And so would you want to start right at 10, or do you like to have a little buffer when you arrive in the office

[00:21:06] Margaret: I’d like to start at 10, cause I’ll probably, I’ll probably get there much before 10.

[00:21:09] Linzy: So the first session is at 10, 15 minute buffer. The next session would be at 11:15. If you want to do a second morning session. So 11:15. This is what I used to do, by the way, is I had 15 minute buffers. I need to make tea, I need to do notes, I need to wander in a circle between clients. It’s very important.

[00:21:25] Okay. So it would be, 11:15, which would give you 12:15 PM then would be like a lunch break. Or 12:30 if you give yourself 15 minutes for those notes. So 12:30 would be lunch. How long would you want to have for lunch?

[00:21:38] Margaret: Probably 30 minutes.

[00:21:40] Linzy: So we do 30 minutes, then 1 o’clock, would be your first afternoon session, 2:15. And then the last one would be, I think it’s a little squishy, 3:30, which would put you to 4:30. So there’s like a little… so then you can decide now, you can kind of accordion it, right?

[00:21:58] Like, is two back to back sessions worth it to get out at four. What are you noticing thinking about these priorities of the 15 minute buffer and getting off at four, what’s more important to really protect?

[00:22:12] Margaret: Yeah, probably the 15 minute buffer.

[00:22:16] Okay.

[00:22:16] Linzy: So this particular schedule that we just sketched out would be sessions at 10 AM, 11:15, one o’clock, 2:15 and 3:30, which would have you finishing your last session at 4:30. And would get you, kind of like, out the door going home, 4:45. How does that sit in your body?

[00:22:38] Margaret: Yeah, that feels good.

[00:22:40] Linzy: Yeah? Is there anything about it you’d want to change?

[00:22:41] Margaret: Yeah. No,

[00:22:43] Linzy: That’s nice.

[00:22:44] Margaret: I mean, I love that schedule.

[00:22:46] Linzy: Yeah, it’s a good schedule.

[00:22:46] Margaret: I wish every week could be like that.

[00:22:49] Linzy: Well, it can be. It can be. So this is, this is another thing for you to decide how much you want to make it a priority. But I, I will tell you that, in my clinical practice where I did complex trauma work, very heavy, very heavy work, I needed those buffers. I had set appointment times every single day.

[00:23:07] So every day there was an appointment slot like this and I had regular appointments with my clients. This particular client would be like Tuesdays at 10 is their day. And like every week, unless something unusual happens, they’re on vacation, or they’re going to be away. I see them every Tuesday at 10 AM.

[00:23:23] And then I see somebody else every Tuesday at 11:15 AM. Right? Like it’s very simple, and it gives you a lot of predictability. You can also then plan your schedule of… say you have two super heavy clients, making sure they’re not back to back, that kind of stuff. Ending your day with a client who you, you always feel light and buoyant after seeing them, or putting a client who you really need a lot of mental space in the morning.

[00:23:44] Cause that’s when you’re brighter, right? Like you get to really be strategic and then it lets your schedule be predictable for you, but it also lets it be predictable for your clients. Cause they know, okay, I see Margaret every Thursday at 1 PM. Super simple. They can plan their life.

[00:23:57] How does that kind of idea sit with you of actually making a set regular schedule for you and your clients?

[00:24:04] Margaret: Yeah. I like it. I think the challenging part is going to be because I haven’t enforced those boundaries before with my clients is going to be a shift for both of us.

[00:24:16] Linzy: Yes. Yes. I was just shredding my clinical notes the other day because on my minimalism kick, I’m now letting go, letting go, letting go of so many things. So I have these clinical notes, mostly from 2017, that I’m shredding, and I found my paperwork that I had forgotten about of my set appointment slot

[00:24:31] paperwork that I had released at a certain point, and this was years into my practice. This is not right away. But it says something to the effect of, I have a regular appointment slot system in my practice. This allows you to have a guaranteed time to see me. This is your spot and it belongs to you.

[00:24:46] Because of that, I ask that you only have so many cancellations in the year. And if you can’t make it, let me know so someone else can use your time. And I was reading it. I was like, damn, this is good. You know, when you do something, you’re like, oh, that was really good. But it’s like, it’s something I rolled out.

[00:24:58] Right. It wasn’t something that kind of just naturally happened. Like I was like, hello, we are making a change. I am making this system, and something that I found myself, Margaret… and I told myself stories that my clients wouldn’t be able to handle it because they’re complex trauma, and some of them can’t leave the house, or they have like DID, like there’s like a lot going on… My reaction that I got from my clients was relief. Even like, I remember one of my teenage clients like literally made a little jump for joy. She was like, “Oh my god, I get to see you every Tuesday at 2:15? This is amazing!” Because it made her life simple, and it let her have that reliability of knowing every week she’s going to see me.

[00:25:34] There isn’t that chance that we’re not going to have our time together. And so, I will share that when I rolled it out, it was good for my clients, and it was definitely very good for me as well. But it is like, there’s a boundary setting there, which can be kind and caring. But yeah, there would be a rollout to it.

[00:25:52] What do you think about the idea of rolling out something like that?

[00:25:55] Margaret: Yeah, I think that’s, again, it’s probably an anxiety story coming up for me. And you’re right, there’s probably… Again, it says a lot more about me and what I’m projecting from my own anxiety onto my clients. I rolled out like a cancellation policy last year, and I had a lot come up around that, and then there was absolutely zero pushback.

[00:26:17] Everybody was like, yes, you should have a cancellation policy!

[00:26:19] Linzy: Good for you.

[00:26:21] Margaret: Yeah.

[00:26:21] Linzy: I think you’ll find this as much the same, right? Because also part of what we do for our clinical clients is we model boundaries, right? Like it’s one thing to talk to them about boundaries, and do boundary exercises with them. But when you actually model boundaries, you are giving them an actual lived experience of healthy, clear boundaries, which is one of the most therapeutic things we can do for somebody, right, is actually like walk the talk.

[00:26:45] So, thinking about this then, if you set up a schedule between 10 and 4, possibly with regular appointment slots so it’s predictable for you, because something that occurs to me, too, Margaret, is if, In this, you could also think about, is there an overflow time, right, where you know if you have to cancel Tuesday, you see folks Friday, or do you have a policy where it’s like, if they get canceled, they get canceled, right?

[00:27:09] And you’re just going to, like, move to the next week. I don’t know if they know about your daughter being sick. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t, but, I’m fairly sure nobody would want you to be overworking yourself if they knew about the energy that obviously is going to be required from you at home.

[00:27:21] But that’s something else for you to think about for your boundaries is like, what happens when shit comes up? Because it’s going to, right? And so planning on that. So that’s part of the situation. But if we think about the schedule, this 10 to 4 with potentially regular appointment slots, right? So you’re, you’re not going to be so tired and distracted and working late.

[00:27:39] I’m curious, what would this do for your relationship with your daughter?

[00:27:43] Margaret: I think it would make me be less anxious at home, which would make me be less irritable and more present.

[00:27:50] Linzy: More ease, more affection, more celebration. Because those things take energy and bandwidth. And I find myself, like, when I’m tired and depleted, I don’t show up as the parent that I want to be. Right? Like, it takes a lot of rest and groundedness to be the parent we want to be, especially in stressful times.

[00:28:06] Margaret: Yes.

[00:28:07] Linzy: Yeah. What do you notice in your body if you think about being able to show up more present for your daughter?

[00:28:13] Margaret: Yeah, like a lightness.

[00:28:15] Linzy: hmm. Yeah. Is there anything about this that isn’t sitting well, or that you’d want to tweak, or that you’re noticing a lot of internal objections to? Mm

[00:28:25] Margaret: No, the only thing that I notice coming up for me is that,I know reliably that my daughter’s going to have these appointments.

[00:28:33] Linzy: Yes.

[00:28:33] Margaret: I know that the schedule’s going to have a lot of change, and all of that, and again, the idea of having to cancel again and again, and again, that brings up a lot of hard feelings for me.

[00:28:46] Linzy: Yes. And with that, that’s where there might be some opportunity for other kinds of wiggle. Like, for instance, if you are able to drop your lowest insurance panel, right? And so that it brings up your income… could you see less clients so there’s less rearranging? Is it having an overflow time where you’re like, I have two overflow slots on Friday afternoon.

[00:29:07] So I have my morning of writing; Friday afternoon is my overflow time. If I have to cancel people early in the week, I will offer the two most urgent cases, I will offer spots on Friday, right? So you know that that’s there. Again, you’re just, you are planning for unpredictability. Right?

[00:29:22] Like you’re building that in. And so I would be curious about what having something like that in place might, might do, to that unpredictability that, that, as you said, you can’t control. You can’t control when appointments are going to come up, or those kinds of things, but how can you control the fact that there’s going to be appointments that come up?

[00:29:36] What can you do about that? What do you think is possible there? What are your options for that reality?

[00:29:41] Margaret: Yeah, I do have one insurance that is significantly lower that I have been, again, one of the things on my many lists of goals and things I’ve been throwing at the dartboard is, is maybe coming off that insurance.So I think that’s probably a place that I should start. I’ve been thinking about it for months.

[00:30:01] Linzy: Okay. That’s a sign.

[00:30:02] Margaret: It’s probably mostly my anxiety keeping me from doing it.

[00:30:06] Linzy: Yeah. And, it is scary to say no to something, right? To say like, actually, I don’t, I don’t need this subpar treatment. Thank you very much. But I would be curious from a numbers perspective, if you spend some time with your numbers, if you did drop that insurance panel, which takes three months, right?

[00:30:20] They don’t just let you walk away right away, but if you did drop that, and if those clients either started paying you out of pocket, or if those clients ended up going to a different therapist, and clients who are on some higher paying insurance panels, what does that do to your income? And my curiosity is, does that allow you to maybe work one or two sessions less a week, and just create more breathing and wiggle room for the unpredictability that’s going to come up? Right? Like what’s the best way that that move could serve you? Is it more money, or is it less clients? Cause you’re in a very specific season of life, right? And so it’s really thinking about, yeah, where, where can, the money serve you best. And one of the things money can do for us is buy back our time, and time is really precious, especially with children. And especially when there’s illness. It’s very precious time. How does that land with you?

[00:31:08] Margaret: I like the way that feels.

[00:31:09] Linzy: Mm hmm.

[00:31:10] Margaret: I like the way that feels of prioritizing how I spend my time, maximizing how I spend my time to make the most income so that the time that I’m not working is intentionally spent.

[00:31:23] Linzy: Precisely. Yeah. I mean, you’re in a spot where you have powerful choices you get to make, right? So you get to decide now how this great thing that you’ve built can support you in your life, and in this season of life that you’re in. So Margaret, coming to the end of our time together today, what are you taking away from our conversation?

[00:31:40] Margaret: Yeah, that I probably have a lot more control over my schedule than it feels like, and that I need to spend some time setting better boundaries, sticking by them with my clients, and that that will probably be liberating for both of us.

[00:31:57] Linzy: Good boundaries are good for everybody.

[00:31:59] Margaret: Yes.

[00:32:00] Linzy: Great. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Margaret.

[00:32:02] Margaret: Alright, yeah, thank you so much for having me. 

[00:32:20] Linzy: The conversation with Margaret today had a lot of pieces to it. Some of my favorite pieces, cause they’re the pieces that matter the most. And I’m thinking especially about values. What actually matters to us? How can our practices actually support us in being the therapist we want to be and the business owner we want to be, but also being the human that we want to be, right?

[00:32:40] Making our life look the way that we want it to look… how can our practice support us in that? And then also, what does our practice need to look like for us to be okay? What are our boundaries? And it can be really difficult to give ourselves permission to work within the boundaries that we actually need to be well.

[00:32:58] But as we talked about today, when we do have boundaries that are taking care of us, we show up better. We do better work for our clients. And we’re actually modeling boundaries to our clients. And then also, as we talked about, it also supports values, and so Margaret’s value of being able to celebrate and have ease and affection… that takes energy, right?

[00:33:20] And by making sure that we’re not giving too much energy to our businesses, we have energy to show up for the people that we love the most and the people who need us the most, which is our family and our friends, not our clients, even though it can certainly feel that way so often. So thank you so much to Margaret for coming on the podcast today.

[00:33:39] You can follow me on Instagram at Money, Nuts and Bolts. And if you’re enjoying the podcast, I would so appreciate it if you could leave me a review on Apple Podcasts, you can share about your favorite episode, what you appreciate about the podcast. It is the best way for other therapists and health practitioners to find us and be part of these conversations.

[00:33:57] Thank you for listening today.