189: Breaking the Hustle Cycle by Shifting your Money Mindset to Heal Scarcity and Fear
Have you ever caught yourself living in constant hustle mode — pushing for the next milestone in your therapy practice but rarely pausing to breathe, to celebrate, or to simply be?
I sit down with Jenny Jonker, a therapist, practice owner, and graduate of both my Money Skills for Therapists and Money Skills for Practice Owners programs. Jenny’s story is powerful — she shares how her immigrant background, her family’s experience fleeing war, and the survival mindset that shaped her early years carried into her life as a business owner. Together, we explore what it looks like to shift from fear and scarcity into calm, trust, and true presence.
I coach Jenny through the process of breaking free from the “always-doing” cycle and learning to actually enjoy the success she’s built. We talk about how trauma, culture, and early money stories shape the way we work — and why slowing down, resting, and allowing ourselves to feel safe in abundance is part of the deeper healing work for therapists.
Jenny’s reflections are moving and relatable: honoring her parents’ legacy while learning that she doesn’t have to hustle to prove her worth. She reminds us that the path to financial stability in private practice isn’t only about spreadsheets and systems — it’s about healing what’s underneath.
(00:03:11) Finding Purpose Beyond Hustle
(00:09:01) Breaking Cycles, Reclaiming Your Space
(00:10:39) Feeling Empowered Through Your Backstory
(00:18:51) Reflecting on Presence and Growth
(00:21:07) Hustling to Prove Yourself
(00:23:01) New Patterns Take Time
(00:26:10) Prioritizing Rest and Growth
(00:30:29) Balancing Hustle with Presence
(00:10:05) “Being an immigrant and having my own history and the way that I grew up, I think has really informed my practice and how I show up with clients and how I want to create this space with intention and be able to share my story and my experiences of hardship and poverty with clients in a way that helps them have hope.” – Jenny Jonker
Jenny beautifully describes what she calls her foreboding joy — that anxious feeling when things are finally good, but a part of you is waiting for something to go wrong. She’s practicing new tools to retrain her nervous system, learning to let in safety, joy, and gratitude. One of her grounding techniques: closing her eyes, counting to three, and saying, “I am really here. I deserve this.”
If you’ve ever felt driven by scarcity, fear, or the pressure to prove yourself, Jenny’s story offers a gentle reminder: your worth doesn’t come from your productivity. It’s okay to slow down, to rest, and to take in how far you’ve come.
Explore your family’s money story. Reflect on the messages you absorbed about money, work, and success growing up. Which beliefs are truly yours, and which are ready to be released?
Notice when “hustle” shows up. When you feel the pull to overwork, ask: “What am I afraid will happen if I slow down?”
Practice mindful presence and positive affect tolerance. Try the same exercise I walked Jenny through: sit still, close your eyes, count to three, and open them with the words, “I deserve this. This is my life. I built this.”
Connect with your younger self. When fear arises, connect with that child part of you and gently remind them, “We’re safe now. I’ve made good choices for us.”
Celebrate your accomplishments – Visibly. Create small rituals to recognize what you’ve built. Light a candle, share your win, or simply pause and feel it.
Start building in rest and enjoyment. Schedule moments of stillness and pleasure — even if it feels unfamiliar. This is how you grow your capacity to receive the good.
Seek out financial education & support. Surround yourself with resources that honor your lived experience. My Money Skills for Therapists and Money Skills for Group Practice Owners programs are designed to help therapists like you build calm, confidence, and financial stability — from a place of self-compassion, not hustle.
Jenny Jonker, MSW, RSW, is the owner and founder of Dragonfly Counselling and Wellness, a private therapy practice offering compassionate, trauma-informed care across Ontario. She came to Canada as a refugee of war from Nicaragua and draws on her lived experience of exile, trauma, and PTSD to inform her work and how she shows up for clients. With over 15 years of experience, Jenny specializes in complex trauma and has advanced training in EMDR, CBT, DBT, and ACT. At the heart of Dragonfly is a human-centered approach—being real, compassionate, and simply human with people is central to the team’s values. Dragonfly proudly serves diverse communities, including a strong focus on Indigenous populations, and offers therapy in multiple languages both in-person and virtually.
Follow Jenny Jonker:
Email: jenny@dfcaw.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dfca.w/
Linzy Bonham [00:00:00]:
Yeah. What do you see as the cost of hustle for you?
Jenny Jonker [00:00:03]:
The constant needing to hustle. Yeah. The constant need. I can’t stop. I’m like the energizer bunny.
Linzy Bonham [00:00:10]:
Yes. Yes. You can’t stop. And I’m curious. What is not happening for you while you’re focused on whatever you’re working on? While you can’t stop, what is not happening that could be happening if you were able to slow down? Welcome to Money Skills for Therapists, the podcast that helps therapists and health practitioners in private practice go from money confusion and shame to calm clarity and confidence with their finances. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by numbers or avoided looking at your business money, you’re in the right place. I’m Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of Money Skills for Therapists. Before we jump in, check out my free on demand masterclass.
Linzy Bonham [00:00:49]:
You’ll find the link in the show notes or at moneynutsandbolts.com under Masterclass. It’s the best first step to finally feeling empowered with money in your private practice. Let’s get started. Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. Today’s episode is a coaching conversation with Jenny Jonker. Jenny Jonker is a graduate of Money Skills for Therapists and Money Skills for Practice Owners, and she is the owner of Dragonfly Counseling and Wellness. Today, Jenny and I dig into how her immigrant story, that experience of survival and having to hustle, and continues to show up in her entrepreneurial journey. Today, Jenny shares about how hard it is for her to slow down, to get out of that hustle mode, and we dig into the roots of that, we look at the impacts of that, and we start to explore how to bring more presence into her life and her experience of her business.
Linzy Bonham [00:01:46]:
I think this is so common for so many of us with, you know, our own variations of our past experiences keep us stuck in a place that is not the place that we are now. And that is certainly the case for Jenny. The space between where she came from and where she is now is a huge gap. So today we explore how to help her be more present in what she has built through the work that she’s done as a therapist with her group practice. Here is my coaching conversation with Jenny Jonker. So, Jenny, welcome to the podcast.
Jenny Jonker [00:02:25]:
Thank you so much. I’m so honored to be here.
Linzy Bonham [00:02:28]:
I am so excited to have you here. So, Jenny, for our time together today, what would be helpful for us to dig into?
Jenny Jonker [00:02:36]:
I’m starting to come to terms that my journey as a business owner and Entrepreneur is kind of being enmeshed with my immigrant story and how I was raised. And I think that that has a lot to do with my money mindset and being able to really be present of where I am and how my business is thriving and figuring out, you know, how to get past some of those, like, mindset hurdles.
Linzy Bonham [00:03:05]:
Yeah.
Jenny Jonker [00:03:05]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:03:06]:
And what are you seeing come up that, you know, is your immigrant story kind of popping up today?
Jenny Jonker [00:03:11]:
I feel like I. I’m constantly in the hustle. I’m really trying to be mindful and present and not getting caught up in the hustle so much, because when I do that, I lose sight of purpose. And one of the reasons why I opened up Dragonfly Counseling and Wellness was to honor my story and to be able to be present for people in a way that I wish that my family members had done so had. Had gotten that type of therapy, and also the way that I wish people had showed up for me. And so I really want to be able to honor that in a very unique way. But I find that when I’m stuck in the hustle, I lose sight of purpose.
Linzy Bonham [00:03:57]:
Okay.
Jenny Jonker [00:03:58]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:03:58]:
What happens when you’re in the hustle? What is that like for you?
Jenny Jonker [00:04:01]:
I feel that I need more.
Linzy Bonham [00:04:05]:
Right.
Jenny Jonker [00:04:06]:
And I need more. I need more. And I don’t stop to see exactly how much I have built.
Linzy Bonham [00:04:13]:
Right.
Jenny Jonker [00:04:13]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:04:14]:
You’re always looking at the next thing that you need to get.
Jenny Jonker [00:04:16]:
Yeah. And I think, too, you know, I come from. I’m an immigrant family. You know, we came to Canada as refugees and fleeing from war. And so survival was our top priority. We didn’t grow up talking about mental health. Our focus was staying afloat, working hard, pushing through. And I saw that through all my family had to work survival jobs, essentially.
Jenny Jonker [00:04:40]:
You know, like, my mom was a surgical nurse at the military hospital in Nicaragua, and when we had to leave and come to Canada, her degree wasn’t transferable here. And so they had to work survival jobs. They worked on farms, tobacco, ginseng, all that stuff. And I actually ended up having to do the same thing, too. And so for us, it was really hard, and rest wasn’t something that we understood. Hustle was our default. And I. Even though that mindset has led me to where I am today, I think that that’s also one of the things that has come as a cost.
Linzy Bonham [00:05:18]:
Yeah. What do you see as the cost of hustle for you?
Jenny Jonker [00:05:21]:
The constant needing to hustle. Yeah, the constant. Can’t stop. I can’t stop. I’m like, the Energizer Bunny. Yes.
Linzy Bonham [00:05:29]:
Yes. You can’t stop. And I’m curious what is not happening for you while you’re focused on whatever you’re working on, while you can’t stop what is not happening that could be happening if you were able to slow down.
Jenny Jonker [00:05:41]:
I’m trying to be more mindful of it. Right. Like even transitioning and opening up my own clinic and getting it started the way that it started. And just I remember you saying you built Rome in a day and now you want it to be a throbbing monopolist.
Linzy Bonham [00:05:56]:
Right.
Jenny Jonker [00:05:57]:
And sometimes I joke about it and tell people about that comment that you made. Sometimes it’s hard for me to really sit in it and recognize how successful it actually has become.
Linzy Bonham [00:06:09]:
Yeah. Because your, your story for folks who don’t have the pleasure of knowing you, like, I do. Like, you just started A group practice 6 1/2 months ago. And what is that looking like right now?
Jenny Jonker [00:06:21]:
We’re doing really good, you know, and even being able to say like, we’re doing really good and say it with like optimistically optimistic, Right. Or hesitantly optimistic, right?
Linzy Bonham [00:06:31]:
Yes.
Jenny Jonker [00:06:32]:
Because that immigrant part of me is like, is that enough? Is that enough?
Linzy Bonham [00:06:38]:
Yes.
Jenny Jonker [00:06:39]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:06:39]:
I mean, if we zoom out on this a little bit, I’m curious, like I’m hearing, you know, this is your family story. This, this was, this was your parents experience of adulthood, right. Is they had to flee somewhere. They lost their status, like in terms of lost professional status, had to work these survival jobs. You also had to work some survival jobs. I think about that as a transition. Right. It’s like transitioning from one place where you did have establishment to a new place where.
Linzy Bonham [00:07:07]:
And we could talk about that, where systems don’t recognize professionalism, which I think is a whole other fucked up thing. But this was your parents experience. What did your parents want for you?
Jenny Jonker [00:07:18]:
You know, I remember growing up and my mom saying, education for you is the greatest success. Right. Like that is going to get you out of poverty. And the biggest legacy that I could ever leave you is leave you with an education. And so that for me has always been my driving force. You know, I have three degrees, I have a master’s, I have all of these other certifications under my belt. And now I have a practice, a thriving practice. And so that for me is, is the legacy that I leave behind for my parents.
Linzy Bonham [00:07:54]:
Yeah, you’ve done the thing that I wanted for you.
Jenny Jonker [00:07:56]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:07:57]:
Yes. You’re doing the thing.
Jenny Jonker [00:07:58]:
I am. I’m doing the thing. Right. And. But it’s kind of learning to slow down and recognize that you have made it. And I even say you have made it with, like, hesitation, right? Yes.
Linzy Bonham [00:08:12]:
Because tell me what the fear of slowing down, what would happen for the part of you that’s afraid? We know there’s, like, other perspectives on this, but for the part of you that is worried or afraid, what would happen if you slowed down a little bit?
Jenny Jonker [00:08:26]:
The thought that came to mind was, I’ll become complacent.
Linzy Bonham [00:08:29]:
Okay. Okay. Tell me more about that.
Jenny Jonker [00:08:32]:
Like, I’ll just. I’ll get stuck.
Linzy Bonham [00:08:36]:
Okay. And where does that idea come from that if you slowed down, you would actually get stuck?
Jenny Jonker [00:08:41]:
I think it’s that constant needing to hustle. Right. And so if you’re not hustling, then you’re not moving, and if you’re not moving, then you’re stuck, right?
Linzy Bonham [00:08:50]:
Yeah. Like, I’m hearing they’re kind of like a black and white framing.
Jenny Jonker [00:08:54]:
Right.
Linzy Bonham [00:08:54]:
It’s like you’re either, like, hustling, you’re going super hard, or you’re, like, not moving at all.
Jenny Jonker [00:09:00]:
Yeah. And starting my own practice wasn’t just a professional milestone for me. Like, starting my own practice was about breaking cycles. It was about breaking intergenerational trauma, the poverty, all of those things. Right. Like, it was building something of my own. And as a woman of color and being part of a marginalized community, you know, it felt like reclaiming my space, rewriting my narrative, and showing up in spaces that not a lot of people look like me, that show up. And so even though, like I said, like, our practice is going really good, we have four caseloads, we have a growing team, and I’m very proud of where it is.
Jenny Jonker [00:09:43]:
Sometimes the struggle feels like it’s just not enough. Right. Or sometimes the hustle feels like it’s not enough. Right.
Linzy Bonham [00:09:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because that. The hustle, then when would that part be satisfied? Like, what? What is enough?
Jenny Jonker [00:09:58]:
I don’t know. And I think that that’s part of. That’s why I say it’s an ongoing thing for me. And I’m starting to really recognize that. And being an immigrant and having my own history and the way that I grew up, I think has really informed my practice and how I show up with clients and how I want to create this space with intention and be able to share my story and my experiences of hardship and poverty with clients in a way that helps them have hope. Perhaps that might be my Enough.
Linzy Bonham [00:10:33]:
Okay. Yeah. Because if that is the enough, how close are you to that place?
Jenny Jonker [00:10:39]:
I think I’ve done it. Yeah. Like even yesterday I was having a, a conversation with a client and there was a lot of shame around their money story and not knowing how to use their finances. And we work primarily with indigenous populations and it was sharing some of my stories of how when I went to university and that I didn’t know how to use finances. I had no idea, you know, I racked up credit cards and did all that stuff. And so being able to share that experience of there’s no shame in it really helped to bridge that gap. And for them to also recognize that it’s okay, there’s really no shame in it. So I think being able to use my personal experiences as a place where there’s that commonality with clients has really helped.
Linzy Bonham [00:11:31]:
Yes. So I’m gonna ask you now to slow down and sink into that experience yesterday, thinking about not just that conversation and your ability to use your own experiences, excellent use of self, by the way, but also the container that you’re doing it within. You know, you’ve created a group that is very much like your vision, your values, Serving the folks that you thrive in serving and helping them thrive. Thinking about that conversation yesterday and all the things that are built around it that made it possible. What do you notice?
Jenny Jonker [00:12:04]:
I think that I was able to really connect with that individual in a way that not a lot of people can.
Linzy Bonham [00:12:12]:
So I’m going to ask you to sink into that a little bit more because I’m hearing, I think is up here sinking down into your body. What is it like to be with that interaction you had yesterday? What do you notice in your body?
Jenny Jonker [00:12:24]:
I think there’s a sense of relief and satisfaction that I’m able to, to do that and to show up in, in those spaces with people.
Linzy Bonham [00:12:33]:
Okay, relief, satisfaction.
Jenny Jonker [00:12:36]:
Yeah, yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:12:37]:
Are there any other emotions in the mix there?
Jenny Jonker [00:12:40]:
Calmness, I guess.
Linzy Bonham [00:12:43]:
Because what I’m. What I’m noticing even in this conversation today is you’re so like head, head led when it comes to this stuff. It’s like I think this and I think that and, and you’re fucking brilliant. So the things you’re thinking are wonderful. Right. But it’s like there’s still this very much like, almost like I’m seeing like your head, like pulling your body along for the ride. Does that kind of image resonate?
Jenny Jonker [00:13:06]:
Oh, for sure, for sure.
Linzy Bonham [00:13:08]:
Right.
Jenny Jonker [00:13:08]:
Like, I have such a deep rooted scarcity mindset that it, it creeps in so many different ways and it just keeps saying, keep building, keep, keep providing, keep doing. And I think slowing down sometimes feels unsafe. Sure.
Linzy Bonham [00:13:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. And what. What is unsafe about slowing down?
Jenny Jonker [00:13:29]:
What if it all goes away?
Linzy Bonham [00:13:30]:
Okay. Yes.
Jenny Jonker [00:13:32]:
And I know that even my clinic, the. Like, the Dragonfly, all of it, that there’s so much of me and my story, and the reason why I started it, to honor my nephew, is also highly linked to it, too. And so there’s so much attached to it that. That’s also. If I keep. If I stop hustling, that’s where the. What if it all goes away? But I’m already here. I’m already doing the thing that I sought out to do.
Linzy Bonham [00:14:02]:
Yes. Yes. And it’s working.
Jenny Jonker [00:14:04]:
It’s working. Yes.
Linzy Bonham [00:14:06]:
Can you hear yourself say that? That it’s working?
Jenny Jonker
[00:14:09]:
Mm. Yeah, I do
Linzy Bonham [00:14:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. And what do you notice hearing that again?
Jenny Jonker [00:14:17]:
It’s, like, hesitantly optimistic. And so I’ve started to actually just sit in the space that I have, because it is mine, and it is very. There’s parts of him everywhere in that space. You know, Like, I have his diploma, and I have. Beside his diploma, I have a sign that says, she believed she could, so she did. And so sometimes even when I come into the space before all the girls come in, I just walk around in silence, or I’ll just sit there, and I’ll be like, good morning. Right. And so I’m very intentional, and I try to, like, really slow it down so that I know that that space is mine and so that I know that I’m safe and I know that it’s okay to be in that space because it is all mine.
Linzy Bonham [00:15:06]:
Yeah, it is. Now, this makes me curious about the rest of your life. Right. Because I know you hustle, which makes you busy, and I know you also have high capacity, which I think really needs to be acknowledged. Right. Like, I think we all have different hustle capacity. Your capacity, I would say, is quite a bit higher than my capacity, which also means, like, what we’re able to do is different. We have to do different math as we’re thinking about these things.
Linzy Bonham [00:15:29]:
Right. But I am thinking about, you know, your. Your parents brought you here to help you get. When I hear education, I hear, like, stability. There’s, like, a class piece to education, right? Where you have access to certain professional jobs, which gives you a certain life. Tell me about how your life is feeling right now.
Jenny Jonker [00:15:50]:
Good. I mean, I think now I’m starting to just do things even within my own private life. Like, you know, for the longest time, it was getting a pool at our house, and always that, like, what if it. What If I don’t have enough, what if I can’t do it? Blah, blah. And now it’s just like, you know what? I’m just gonna fuck it. I’m gonna do it, and we’ll figure it out after.
Linzy Bonham [00:16:16]:
Right?
Jenny Jonker [00:16:17]:
And so we’re in the process of building a deck now. We have a nice pool. Like, we’re doing the things. Because when you’ve been bereaved, when you have had a lot of loss and, you know, even from the moment that we landed on that we came to Canada and stepped foot in this country, we were bereaved because we had a loss. And so my whole entire life has been about loss and bereavement. Right. And I think that that has taught me to live life with intention and to do the things regardless of how hard the struggle is. Right.
Jenny Jonker [00:16:51]:
And so even building the pool and doing all those things, I really started to become more present and recognize that you’ll figure it out. It will be okay. Right. Even though you’re doing this thing, scared you’re still just gonna do it? Yes.
Linzy Bonham [00:17:08]:
Yes. And what does that represent to you, the pool and the deck?
Jenny Jonker [00:17:12]:
Accomplishments.
Linzy Bonham [00:17:14]:
It’s accomplishment. It’s like a certain, like, lifestyle kind of level or something else.
Jenny Jonker [00:17:20]:
Accomplishment. And. Yeah, I mean, it’s. It’s being able to say, like, I guess, too, having a visual representation of how hard I’ve worked and to be like, I can. I can now I’m in a place where I can afford this. Like, I don’t have to go and work in tobacco fields in order to afford this anymore. Right. Like, I could do this and I will be okay.
Jenny Jonker [00:17:43]:
We can take trips and we will be okay.
Linzy Bonham [00:17:46]:
Yeah, I think you’ll be more than okay.
Jenny Jonker [00:17:48]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:17:49]:
What I’m thinking about as we’re talking is, like, there really is this shift that takes time, and it is hard to make between survival and living and thriving. I wouldn’t say it’s kind of like, in terms of business, you are moving into that thriving space, and you’re moving kind of at rocket speed, because that’s the speed at which you move, which I know from knowing you. Like, you know, from. From the time we started working together in money skills. Money skills for therapist, the solo course to now is not that much time. And a lot has changed for you. You’ve done a lot.
Jenny Jonker [00:18:21]:
Right.
Linzy Bonham [00:18:22]:
So you. You’re able to move quickly to build your businesses. You’re smart, you’re competent, you learn, you apply things. But it’s like your nervous system is still back in that surviving Place.
Jenny Jonker [00:18:35]:
Yeah. I find that sometimes, like, it’s hard for my brain to recognize that, like, this is where I am, because it keeps thinking that this is where you were before. And so it hasn’t caught up yet, I guess.
Linzy Bonham [00:18:50]:
Yes.
Jenny Jonker [00:18:51]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:18:51]:
It makes me think about, you know, time, orientation, you know, with. With trauma, and, like, actually being able to be here and sitting where you are right now, which, you know, folks who are listening can’t see this because we’re. We’re not going to do video for this episode, but Jenny has this gorgeous sunroom, which I always find very inspiring when I see you sitting here. And she showed me, before we started recording her backyard with this new pool and the deck that’s being built and all these, like, gorgeous green trees. You sitting there now. Can I ask you to take a moment, to take in the fact that this is yours? This is the life that you are building and have built. This is your place.
Jenny Jonker [00:19:31]:
No, that’s crazy.
Linzy Bonham [00:19:32]:
Yeah. What do you notice taking that in and give it a second. You just moved at Jenny speed. And ask you to slow down just a little more. Slow down and take it in. You have built all this. This is yours. This is your home.
Jenny Jonker [00:19:48]:
The holy fuck moment. Holy crap. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:19:57]:
And I’m curious, like, what parts of you are surprised by it?
Jenny Jonker [00:20:01]:
A little immigrant girl.
Linzy Bonham [00:20:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. Is that a part of you that you’ve done trauma work with, or emdr? Oh, yeah, for sure, it’s a part, you know.
Jenny Jonker [00:20:10]:
Well, yeah, my younger part of self. Right. I call her little one.
Linzy Bonham [00:20:14]:
Little one. Okay.
Jenny Jonker [00:20:15]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:20:16]:
And does little one know about your business that you’ve built? Does she know about the group and the work that you do?
Jenny Jonker [00:20:23]:
Oh, yeah. Right. Like, I think even doing the transition and the shift from doing, you know, having a partnership to. To now being solo practice, I mean, to. To now being group practice on my own, there’s a lot of work that I had to do with her. A lot of work. Yeah. Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:20:40]:
You’ve definitely done a lot of the. The hard things to get to where you are.
Jenny Jonker [00:20:44]:
Oh, yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:20:45]:
A lot of the scary things. Yeah. So what does this part of you think about this life that you’ve built?
Jenny Jonker [00:20:53]:
I don’t think she ever thought she could.
Linzy Bonham [00:20:55]:
So there’s still that, like, surprise, disbelief. What is it? Is there acceptance there and, like, ownership?
Jenny Jonker [00:21:02]:
I think she’s excited to get into that pool
Linzy Bonham [00:21:04]:
Yeah.
Jenny Jonker [00:21:07]:
No, yeah. You know, I think it’s. I think I know that when I’m in the hustle and when I feel that I need to keep Going, I know that that’s my younger part of self that comes out because she’s the one that was held back. She’s the one that needed to prove herself in a world where she doesn’t look like the rest.
Linzy Bonham [00:21:32]:
Right.
Jenny Jonker [00:21:33]:
In a world where you’re the minority and you’ve got to hustle for your sense of self worth. And I think I’m at the point where my, you know, older part of self says, hey, it’s okay. We’ve made really great choices up to now. And I got you. Right. Like, I’ve got you. It’s okay. It’s okay.
Jenny Jonker [00:21:52]:
And sometimes I, like, stop myself and I tell myself that and I hold my heart and I say, we’re okay. We’ve got this. Right. And I think it’s taken a lot for me to get to that place.
Linzy Bonham [00:22:03]:
And it’s. It’s a process. Right. Like, it’s like, you are your life. Up until now, so much of it was defined by this, like, survival and having to fight for your place and that immigrant legacy. Right. Like, that’s. That’s been most of your life.
Linzy Bonham [00:22:22]:
And like, proportionally, if we think about it, what portion of your life do you feel like you’ve really started to. To have that full sense of, like, agency effectiveness? I can build what I want. What portion of your life has been that?
Jenny Jonker [00:22:36]:
I’d probably say that’s been something that’s recent. Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:22:39]:
Like how recent?
Jenny Jonker [00:22:41]:
Since I went on my own. Okay.
Linzy Bonham [00:22:43]:
So that was eight months ago, six months ago.
Jenny Jonker [00:22:47]:
@ this point, I really started to really step into it and started to really take ownership of things because I realized I’ve worked really hard to get to where I am now, and I’m at the point in my life where I don’t need to eat it anymore.
Linzy Bonham [00:23:01]:
Yes. Okay, so quick math. I’m just going to round. I’m going to say that that’s probably about 2% of your life that you’ve been in this place, and 98% was getting you up to that place. So it makes a lot of sense that there’s still going to be this old pattern, an old way of doing things, because statistically speaking, this is very, very new. Right. But also, it occurs to me that, you know, by that same logic, the more time that passes, the more and more and more of your life will be life spent in this place where you’ve been able to see kind of the fruits of your labor.
Jenny Jonker [00:23:36]:
Yeah. And I think it’s. It’s nice to be able to see the fruits of My labor and to see how hard I’ve worked to get here and to allow myself to be in those spaces, to be present. And I think that’s something that I’m really working on is to allow myself to be present. Yeah. And that’s.
Linzy Bonham [00:23:54]:
That’s the curiosity that I have now at this point in the conversation is like, how do you give yourself more of. Of that? Like, I’m hearing you already have developed some practices around being present, like letting yourself really be present in the morning when you go into your space. What else can be integrated into your life to give yourself more and more of those experiences of just being exactly where you are.
Jenny Jonker [00:24:14]:
It’s interesting because I use this technique with clients all the time and I tell them about. You know, there was moments where when I first moved into. To this house and my kids were playing on the playground and my husband was, like, playing around with a dog and everything, and I was like, oh, my gosh, things are good. And I was like, good job. We have this beautiful home. Everything’s great. And then all of a sudden, I had this just like, anxiety come over me. And that’s the foreboding joy of, holy shit, something bad is going to happen.
Jenny Jonker [00:24:47]:
And the reality is, when you have had a lot of trauma or have had a lot of bereavement in your life, that foreboding joy is very real. Right. Because you. You go into this mindset that things like this don’t happen to people like me. Right. And so a technique that I. That I. I always use is that when I am in moments of happiness and rejoice and things are great, I close my eyes and I count to three, and I say, when you open your eyes, it means that you are really here, that you deserve this, and that this is where you are.
Jenny Jonker [00:25:28]:
Right. And I will open my eyes. And sometimes, to be honest, it’s scary to open my eyes, but that helps me to become present and it helps my brain to recognize. No, this is actually happening to you.
Linzy Bonham [00:25:40]:
Can we do that now?
Jenny Jonker [00:25:41]:
Sure.
Linzy Bonham [00:25:42]:
Okay. Do you want to coach yourself or do you want me to talk you through that?
Jenny Jonker [00:25:45]:
You can talk me through it.
Linzy Bonham [00:25:47]:
Okay. Okay. So close your eyes. We’re going to count to three, and when you open your eyes, you’re going to be able to really take in that this is where you are, this is yours.
Jenny Jonker [00:25:58]:
You’ve built this pretty cool.
Linzy Bonham [00:26:02]:
What emotions are you noticing?
Jenny Jonker [00:26:03]:
I’m happy. I really am happy. I’m very grateful. I’m very grateful.
Linzy Bonham [00:26:10]:
And I encourage you to keep giving yourselves more Experiences of that. And I think too also, as you build up the practice, starting to build the practice to make sure that you’re getting good amounts of time off, starting to look at your schedule. Cause I think that I’m also thinking about your business. There are gonna be these next level steps that you’re able to put in place as the business gets into that more of a hum where you’re like, okay, we’ve been in this place now for like a year and a half. I can breathe. You know, the buffers are there. All those practical things that we’ve worked together on in money skills for practice owners. You’re also gonna be able to build bigger sections of time where you just get to be whatever that is for you, whether that’s travel or just having some time at home or always taking Friday afternoons off.
Linzy Bonham [00:26:51]:
Do you have a sense of what some of that could be for you as you continue to build out the business?
Jenny Jonker [00:26:55]:
I am starting to be more mindful of my schedule, setting certain days, especially with the summer and the kids, and setting time aside for them. I’m really trying to be more mindful of that and taking vacation. Even though in the back of your mind you’re like, should you do that? Blah, blah. It’s like, no, I have to. It’s not whether should you or not. It’s that I have to. Right? And the grounding and being like, no, it’s okay. Like, you don’t constantly need to hustle.
Jenny Jonker [00:27:25]:
Like, it’s, you’re okay. And I think, like I said, like, that goes back to I know where it comes from. I know that it’s my immigrant story. I know that it’s that the fear that if I don’t hustle, then it will all go away. And that’s just the foreboding joy. I know that. And it’s just slowing myself down. Slowing it down.
Jenny Jonker [00:27:45]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:27:46]:
Because it sounds like that is one of the antidotes to the foreboding joy that you’ve identified in your own clinical work is just like, just slowing down and being with and noticing and something else that comes to mind. Another, like, clinical phrase is the positive affect tolerance, which I know for me in my life has been something I’ve really had to work on, that it’s actually like, it’s okay to feel good and it’s okay. And like, when we’re not used to that, that’s actually a new skill to build too. Right. It’s just to be able to be with the good and not have that mean that you Know as that logic in our brain can be, it’s good. Therefore something bad is going to happen.
Jenny Jonker [00:28:20]:
Right.
Linzy Bonham [00:28:20]:
But like, this is real nervous system retraining that you’re doing now
Jenny Jonker [00:28:24]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:28:25]:
That you can do from the place that you’ve built.
Jenny Jonker [00:28:27]:
Yeah. And it’s taken a lot of work to get to that place and slowly for surely sometimes it’s uncomfortable and I don’t like it, but I know that it’s something that I. That I have to do because I have purpose.
Linzy Bonham [00:28:42]:
So, Jenny, coming towards the end of our conversation today, what are you taking away?
Jenny Jonker [00:28:46]:
That I am okay. I am okay. I’m in a really good place and I’m very grateful to say it and I shouldn’t be afraid to say that I am in a good place.
Linzy Bonham [00:28:55]:
And you’ve worked hard to get here.
Jenny Jonker [00:28:57]:
And I’ve worked really hard to get here. Very hard.
Linzy Bonham [00:29:00]:
Yeah.
Jenny Jonker [00:29:00]:
Yeah.
Linzy Bonham [00:29:01]:
Right. Jenny, before we finish up, I’m curious for some folks listening, they’re going to be, you know, maybe they’ve been around in my world for a while and they’re like, one day, maybe I’ll take Money Skills for Therapists. Do you have any thoughts or anything you want to share about your experience with Money Skills for Therapists and Money Skills for Group Practice Owners? Maybe for somebody who really identifies with you who would be listening.
Jenny Jonker [00:29:22]:
Honestly, like, before I took the course, I had no idea. Like, I was scared of taxes. I would, like, taxes would come around and I’d be like, oh, my God, I’m like freaking out. And it’s interesting because this is the first year that I didn’t, like, freak out about taxes. I was okay. And I was actually talking to my bookkeeper about it. And before I used to be like, oh, it’s a write off. It’s a write off.
Jenny Jonker [00:29:47]:
And now I’m like, okay, show me the P and L sheet. Show me this, show me that. Like, what are the metrics? All this stuff. And I’ve just grown substantial. And honestly, if it wasn’t for your courses, I don’t think I would have made the leap of faith that I did and be in the place that I am now. And I will forever be grateful for it because I think I really found myself in this course. Thank you.
Linzy Bonham [00:30:10]:
Thanks for sharing that, Jenny. And I am amazed by you always. You are a force of nature. And also I’m excited for you to develop the ability to just enjoy what you’ve built, too.
Jenny Jonker [00:30:20]:
Thank you. Thank you. I’m so appreciative of you.
Linzy Bonham [00:30:23]:
Thanks, Jenny.
Jenny Jonker [00:30:27]:
Foreign.
Linzy Bonham [00:30:29]:
I’m so happy that Jenny joined me on the podcast today. She is a true force of nature in the money Skills for group practice owners course. A couple times I, you know, would introduce her on calls as like the incomparable Jenny Jonker. Because Jenny is an incredibly high capacity person who can achieve a lot in a short period of time. And I, I realized in doing that, and Jenny and I were chatting about this a little bit after our recording, I am also, also kind of like feeding into that hustle side, right? So when we are in this like business building space and when we are kind of on the achiever side of things, it’s easy for us to really validate other people’s abilities to build huge things because it is awesome and amazing. But also as Jenny was talking about, it’s so important too, when you are that kind of person to actually be able to stop and be present and enjoy what you’ve built. Because otherwise kind of like, what’s the point if we can’t actually enjoy what we’ve built, if we can’t actually be present in the life that we’ve created, then to our nervous system, it’s like it’s not even really real. You know, we’re still in that past place, we’re still in that, that childhood and that survival space.
Linzy Bonham [00:31:37]:
So I’m continually impressed by Jenny and also really excited for her to continue to develop her skills, to be able to actually sit back and enjoy that pool and take those vacations and slow down and really be in her body and take in all the benefits of the amazing things that she has built. Thank you so much for joining me today. I’m Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and the creator of money sales for therapists. If you like, Jenny are ready to go from money confusion and fear to feeling clear and empowered about money, my On Demand Masterclass is the best place for you to start. You’re going to learn my four step framework to get your private practice finances really working for you. You can register today using the link in the show notes or go to moneynutsandbolts.com under masterclass. I look forward to supporting.
