Choosing Time, Family, and Financial Stability as a Breadwinning Therapist

Colleen Barrows [00:00:00]: 

I think we’ve been leaning on the math for the most part, and it’s wearing on me, and I feel pretty exhausted by that. And I think another thing that’s helped is just reflecting on a few years ago when I was with my daughter more when she was 2, and my husband did work more during that season. And I worked, but not as much as I do now. And financially, we weren’t in the place we are now. But I felt better. I felt more aligned in other ways. And so it’s, I think that’s good information, but it can feel, you know, with the things that we’ve taken on financially, I can feel a little stuck on how to get back there. 

Linzy Bonham [00:00:40]: 

Welcome to Money Skills for Therapists, the podcast that helps therapists and health practitioners in private practice go from money confusion and shame to calm clarity and confidence with their finances. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by numbers or avoided looking at your business money, you’re in the right place. I’m Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of Money Skills for Therapists. Before we jump in, check out my free on demand masterclass. You’ll find the link in the show notes or@moneynutsandbolts.com under masterclass. It’s the best first step to finally feeling empowered with money in your private practice. Let’s get started. Hello and welcome back to the podcast. 

Linzy Bonham [00:01:18]: 

Today’s episode is a coaching episode with money skills for therapist graduate Colleen Barrows. Colleen is a therapist who’s been practicing for 15 years. She focuses on perinatal mental health. And today, Colleen and I dig into this challenge that so many of us face when we have young kids of balancing time with kids with the need to make money with other passion projects. In this case, a blog that Colleen is writing for moms in the early, early days of parenthood. How do you balance all of these things? Things? Today we also talk about breadwinning. Colleen is a breadwinner, so we talk about how that comes into her dynamic and basically tease apart this question of how do you balance all of these competing obligations and passions and values, especially while your kids are really young and you are the primary breadwinner? Here is my coaching conversation with Colleen Barrows. So, Colleen, welcome to the podcast. 

Colleen Barrows [00:02:30]: 

Thank you. I’m so happy to be here. 

Linzy Bonham [00:02:32]: 

I am so happy to have you here. It is such a treat to get to see you again after. I don’t know where we are now, like two years. Is that. 

Colleen Barrows [00:02:40]: 

It’s been. It’s been about a year, I think a Year. 

Linzy Bonham [00:02:42]: 

Okay. 

Colleen Barrows [00:02:42]: 

It feels like two. 

Linzy Bonham [00:02:43]: 

Apparently a lot has happened in my life. 

Colleen Barrows [00:02:45]: 

Yes. 

Linzy Bonham [00:02:46]: 

Okay. So a year after we worked together in Money Skills for Therapists. 

Colleen Barrows [00:02:51]: 

Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:02:51]: 

So what do you want to focus on during our time together today? 

Colleen Barrows [00:02:55]: 

Yeah, I think there’s several parts to it, but I think as I’ve thought about it, I think the best way to say it is I’m just, I’m really feeling stuck and trying to figure out how to focus my energy and time right now. I’m feeling since working with you and Money Skills for Therapists, I’m feeling a lot more grounded in my practice, a lot more financially. I do feel more stable in that way. Just feeling awesome. So I’m very grateful for that. I think specifically even before we got on our call, I was doing my profit first allocation so that implementing some of those things has been really helpful. But yeah, I recently started a blog called all the Mama Therapy for Postpartum Women. Pregnant Postpartum. 

Colleen Barrows [00:03:39]: 

That’s primarily the population I work with. But I guess I’m trying to formulate this thought. I’m struggling with where to put my energy because ideally the blog and maybe some other aspects that I would add to the blog such as having some classes kind of that ideally would add some passive income, but as of right now it’s not passive and it’s also not income. I think I’m feeling discouraged with that, but I also feel a lot of energy and passion for it. So I guess I would just love some input on how to think about my time, how to think about the energy that I’m putting into these various things. Because the other aspect is I’m noticing that what I’m wanting the most right now is time, specifically with my 2 year old. My daughter just started kindergarten as we were talking about before we got on. And she is wonderful, but she’s probably neurospicy somewhere in that range and so she requires a lot. 

Colleen Barrows [00:04:47]: 

And so I’m just really craving time with my 2 year old, I guess. And it’s hard to find where to put that and where to. How to prioritize things and how to find. How to make that work. 

Linzy Bonham [00:04:59]: 

So that’s a lot to fit into one human life. 

Colleen Barrows [00:05:02]: 

Yeah, it is. And I think you and I last year talked about how I’m, you know, the primary breadwinner and you know, that’s a whole other aspect that we maybe don’t have time to go into today. But it is, you know, a big part of this is my husband, he did start doing handyman Work on Mondays. So I stay home on Mondays. He does some work. So that is feeling energetically better to have that happening. But the breakup of the income and also our just what our life is looking like is not feeling exactly what I would want right now, so. 

Linzy Bonham [00:05:39]: 

Yeah, yeah, because there’s a lot of, like, I’m hearing a lot of pressure there. 

Colleen Barrows [00:05:44]: 

Yeah, yeah, right. 

Linzy Bonham [00:05:45]: 

Like there’s the pressure on you as, as the main breadwinner in the household. Yes, like vast, vast majority breadwinner. 

Colleen Barrows [00:05:52]: 

Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:05:53]: 

Then there’s, you know, the two year old is only two for so long, you know, and she’s, you know, interesting. There’s stuff going on, you know, and then there’s also, you know, wanting to create this passive income stream. I’m going to put that in hard quotations. Passive income. 

Colleen Barrows [00:06:09]: 

Yes. 

Linzy Bonham [00:06:10]: 

You know, to also, you know, I’m hearing in that too, like a passion to like reach more people. 

Colleen Barrows [00:06:14]: 

Yeah, exactly. 

Linzy Bonham [00:06:15]: 

Reach the folks that you love to serve. And that’s a lot to be carrying on your shoulders all at the same time. 

Colleen Barrows [00:06:21]: 

It is, it is. And I think obviously the hope is that if I could build the blog into something that it would be less on my shoulders, but right now it’s adding a lot. And I guess I’m curious. As I was preparing for this call, I was like, I wonder if I just need some kind of Tetris of scheduling magic. That’s my fantasy, I think, and I don’t think it’s that simple. But it’s like, how do I fit it all in and how do I just Tetris it just right so that I get everything? 

Linzy Bonham [00:06:56]: 

And that would be the kind of productivity response. Like if this was a productivity podcast, I would say, sure, you can do it all. Let’s talk about time blocking. Let’s talk about getting up and doing the most important thing first in the morning. And how do you set yourself up for an optimal day in that kind of philosophy? That’s more about optimizing your human life. I’m sure there’s lots of hacks that could help you be more effective. I personally use time blocking. I just started using Cal Newport’s timeblock planner and I do find it’s helpful. 

Linzy Bonham [00:07:27]: 

It does make me more effective when I think about, okay, what’s already on my schedule today with those blocks of time in between, what are the most important things I can be doing? Just blocking. Like, okay, from this time to this time, I’m doing inbox from 11 to 12. Right. And then from 12 to 1, I’m always gonna take a lunch and a walk, because I need that. Right. And then this is my calls. And this is so certainly some of that is helpful. But also we do only have so much energy. 

Linzy Bonham [00:07:53]: 

Right. And something that I’m thinking about, as I’m thinking about your situation is your kiddo is two. Two is a lot. And two is also fleeting. You know, all the years are fleeting, but within, you know, three years, your youngest will be in school. Right. So this is also a very specific window. There’s a podcast I listened to a little bit when I was in the kind of like young baby days, the days that you help mothers with called the Longest, Shortest Time. 

Linzy Bonham [00:08:18]: 

Are you familiar with that one? 

Colleen Barrows [00:08:20]: 

I’m not, but that’s so true. 

Linzy Bonham [00:08:21]: 

Yeah. And like that’s the idea is like those early years, especially like the baby days, but I would say also the toddler days. The days can feel long, but the years fly by. 

Colleen Barrows [00:08:32]: 

Yes. 

Linzy Bonham [00:08:33]: 

Right. And they’re years that we never get back. Never again will your little one be completely obsessed with you and want you to like play in the sandbox or whatever she’s into. 

Colleen Barrows [00:08:42]: 

Yeah, it’s such a sweet time. 

Linzy Bonham [00:08:43]: 

It is a sweet time. You know, and so I guess as I’m thinking about balancing these things, I’m curious, tell me what it is that is out of balance with your time with your 2 year old. What needs to look different? 

Colleen Barrows [00:09:00]: 

I think what I’ve been landing on is just craving that, like one on one time. And so I do think that with my daughter starting school, some of that will be a little bit more organic. I have Mondays with him, which is great. And I was starting to play with the idea of taking Thursday mornings off to also have with him. But I think because my daughter, my eldest, does take so much attention that oftentimes when we’re all together, I end up being pulled away to kind of attend to something with her. And so I think it’s the one on one time with him that I’m really mostly craving. 

Linzy Bonham [00:09:40]: 

Sorry, and I may have misgendered. You’re younger there. I think I referred to your younger as a girl as well. So to be clear, older child is a girl, the younger one’s the boy. 

Colleen Barrows [00:09:46]: 

The two year old we’re talking about. 

Linzy Bonham [00:09:48]: 

Yeah. So I’m hearing it’s really about that quality connection time. 

Colleen Barrows [00:09:52]: 

It is, yeah. And I had a lot of that with my daughter when she was this age. And so I think that’s also. I’m feeling just the difference of the kind of time I had with her. Versus the kind of time I’m getting with him. Yeah, yeah.

Linzy Bonham [00:10:05]: 

So I’m hearing Thursday morning is something that you’re playing with the idea for Thursday morning. 

Colleen Barrows [00:10:10]: 

Yes. Yeah, I actually blocked that out for next week to try it out. So I’m gonna see. And then just like anything, if I take that time, then I have to fit clients somewhere else. I have to fit other things, blog time, other places. But yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:10:26]: 

And thinking about that kind of optimized schedule, Tetris kind of thing, do you have a schedule worked out that helps you balance these different priorities? 

Colleen Barrows [00:10:37]: 

Yes and no. I feel like what mostly happens is I get my client schedule made week by week, and I do have a pretty somewhat set schedule for that. And then I fit in other things around that, whether it’s finances or working on the blog, things like that. Yeah.

Linzy Bonham [00:10:56]: 

So that’s like a regular client schedule or is that a moving client schedule?  

Colleen Barrows [00:11:01]: 

It’s a moving. It’s. It stays roughly within the same kind of hours of the week, though. Okay, but. Okay. Yeah, yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:11:08]: 

So there’s kind of some blocks there that, you know, are going to be client hours. 

Colleen Barrows [00:11:11]: 

Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. But I find that if I get a cancellation or, you know, just have an open hour, that’s when I’m like, okay, I’m going to do my best to fill in the blank. Do 10 things.

Linzy Bonham [00:11:22]: 

Yes.

Colleen Barrows [00:11:22]: 

With that one hour. 

Linzy Bonham [00:11:24]: 

Yes, yes. Yeah. Because thinking about the number side, I know that your income is essential for your household. It’s not supplementary. 

Colleen Barrows [00:11:32]: 

Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:11:33]: 

How many clients a week do you need to see to be able to bring home the base money to keep your household running? 

Colleen Barrows [00:11:40]: 

I’ve been doing roughly 20 to 22, depending on the week. That’s more than. Honestly, I would like to see. But that is quite a bit. Yeah, yeah. But that’s what I need right now. Some weeks are 18, 17. 18. 

Colleen Barrows [00:11:56]: 

But. And I think that that feels a little better, but yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:12:01]: 

Okay. Yeah. So 20 to 22. It is a stretch. It’s what you’ve been doing, but 18 is nicer. Yeah. Do you know what your sweet spot number would actually be? Just as a clinician, what would be your ideal amount of sessions? 

Colleen Barrows [00:12:13]: 

I mean, in a perfect world, 16 to 18, probably. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:12:18]: 

Okay. So a little lower than you are now, but not massively lower. Not like half. 

Colleen Barrows [00:12:22]: 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:12:23]: 

So that’s good. 

Colleen Barrows [00:12:24]: 

Okay. 

Linzy Bonham [00:12:25]: 

Because, you know, the piece that I’m thinking about too, as we’re thinking about balancing these different demands on your time, priorities, values. Right. Because obviously parenting, family is a value that you have you want to have that one on one time with your son? I’m hearing the blog, there is hope there for some passive income. So there’s some business strategy that you’re hoping will come from that. But I’m also hearing that there’s passion for it. Right. Like you have spark for it, which also kind of has its own life. 

Colleen Barrows [00:12:55]: 

Yeah, yeah. It’s a creative outlet, which is a big part of me. Yeah, yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:13:01]: 

So that’s also going to be nurturing you in kind of a different way. But then there’s also this need for you to make money, the household money. Right. This is not a couple session. Obviously your husband is not here and we’re not going to get too deep into anything. But it does make me curious about in terms of your energy, have you and your husband thought about how much he would need to be working for you to be able to start to decrease your client load a little bit? Do you have a sense of what that math will look like? 

Colleen Barrows [00:13:31]: 

To be honest, like, he and I have not thought together about that, but I have done some thinking about that. And part of the catch 22 here is that I do make more per hour. And so it just has made sense for me to increase my hours as far as financially, but time wise, not so much. But I think that is a conversation that I’ve been wanting to have with him is just, for example, if I’m not working Thursday mornings, maybe he could take on some hours. That would balance that out a little bit. 

Linzy Bonham [00:14:01]: 

Yeah. Because having an actual sense of that math would be helpful because then we can actually start to understand. Okay, so if as a couple you make a goal of like you’d eventually like to get you working 18 sessions a week because that’s going to give you more energy to be present with your children. It’s going to give you time and energy to focus on the blog in a fresher way. Yeah. How many hours or how many jobs, however it’s going to work, would your husband have to take on to replace this 2 to 4 client income that we’re talking about here? We know that it’s going to be more hours than you’re going to work. You are professional offering professional services. We are very lucky to be in a field where we can command a high hourly amount more than most professions. 

Linzy Bonham [00:14:41]: 

But also we can’t work 40 hours a week doing what we do. So there’s a trade off there. Right. It’s like we might be able to charge $250 or $300 for what we do even. But we can’t work 40 hours a week. You know, we’re going to cap out at 20, 25. 

Colleen Barrows [00:14:56]: 

Yep. 

Linzy Bonham [00:14:57]: 

Your husband is going to be able to charge less per job or less per hour, but he’s going to be able to work more hours without becoming grizzled and burnt out. Do you have a sense right now of what that math could look like? Like, what does your husband get paid for, say like a morning of handyman work? 

Colleen Barrows [00:15:14]: 

He has been charging. I’m trying to remember what rate he just started out. So I think he’s starting a little on the low side. Maybe 70 an hour. So. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:15:25]: 

Which is not nothing. 

Colleen Barrows [00:15:26]: 

Yeah, it’s not nothing. 

Linzy Bonham [00:15:27]: 

Yeah, we, we had a handyman work with us last summer helping us build out backyard, a bunch of garden beds and stuff like that. Kind of like a generalist. And he was only $50 an hour. So 70 is. 70 is good. So it’s like if your husband can command $70 an hour and you’re saying that’s kind of low for your area, is he starting on the lower end. 

Colleen Barrows [00:15:47]: 

Of what’s normal from people he’s talked to? Yeah, it seems that that’s at least average to low. Yeah. What is your hourly rate right now? I’m about 190. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:15:58]: 

So it’s almost like three to one. The math is not quite perfect, but basically he would have to work three hours to replace one of your sessions. So for you to not see two clients, it’s kind of like a day of work for him. Like a six hour day. 

Colleen Barrows [00:16:12]: 

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:16:14]: 

What do you notice thinking about that math? 

Colleen Barrows [00:16:15]: 

I notice a mix. Like again, it feels a little stuck because it’s. Part of me feels like, well, I should just work those two hours. The logical part of me feels like that doesn’t quite add up. But the energetics of him working this one day a week and just feeling him bringing in some income has felt really good. And so I could imagine a world in which him working another day, day and a half or so would make a big difference on. On our finances in part, but also just on the. How I feel, which I’m sure. 

Linzy Bonham [00:16:53]: 

On your relationship. 

Colleen Barrows [00:16:54]: 

Yeah. And on our relationship. Yeah. And just the pressure. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:16:57]: 

It’s tempting in relationships when one partner is like professionalized and can charge a lot per hour and the other can’t to kind of go all or nothing on both of them. You know, I’ve seen, I’ve seen couples do this and you know, or one, one Partner is like a lawyer. Right. And the other one can get like a decent low to mid level corporate job, but is never going to make what a lawyer makes. So the lawyer works more and more and more and the other one does more of like the home building, caretaking. And depending on who you are as people, that might be a perfect fit. But if it’s not in energetic alignment with what actually makes you happy, and if it doesn’t foster a sense of equity in the relationship, then it’s almost like a little bit of a. I’m not sure quite how to say it, but we are almost like oversimplifying the situation. 

Linzy Bonham [00:17:45]: 

You’re not just dollars per hour. 

Colleen Barrows [00:17:47]: 

Right. 

Linzy Bonham [00:17:47]: 

You’re both humans who have emotions and have finite capacity and also have a relationship between the two of you. And both need to be showing up and contributing to your family in different ways. 

Colleen Barrows [00:17:58]: 

Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:17:59]: 

So I can see by the math. By the math, it’s like, oh, you should just work all the time. 

Colleen Barrows [00:18:03]: 

Right. 

Linzy Bonham [00:18:03]: 

But as a human, that’s a terrible idea. 

Colleen Barrows [00:18:05]: 

Yes. And I think we’ve been leaning on the math for the most part and it’s wearing on me and I feel pretty exhausted by that. And I think another thing that’s helped is just reflecting on a few years ago when I was with my daughter more when she was 2, and my husband did work more during that season. And I worked, but not as much as I do now. And financially we weren’t in the place we are now, but I felt better. I felt more aligned in other ways. And so it’s. I think that’s good information, but it can feel with the things that we’ve taken on financially, I can feel a little stuck on how to get back there. 

Colleen Barrows [00:18:45]: 

Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:18:46]: 

Yeah. One thing that occurs to me as we’re talking about this in your family and the dynamics and time together, kids growing up is what if money is not the most important thing? And I’m curious if that’s true. If money is not actually the most important thing, what is the most important thing? 

Colleen Barrows [00:19:03]: 

Yeah. And that’s never been my focus, but I think with bills, it’s like there’s just things that I can’t avoid. And so I do really value time and time with my kids and time with the family and even my creative self, my husband’s creative self, he’s also a creative person. So I think those are the things that we’ve valued. But with taking on a mortgage and having two kids that it’s so easy to get misaligned with the focus. Just has to be on bringing income. 

Linzy Bonham [00:19:40]: 

Yes. 

Colleen Barrows [00:19:41]: 

Yes. Yeah. It’s a stuck place, I guess. 

Linzy Bonham [00:19:45]: 

Yeah. Yeah, it is a stuck place. And it’s a place that I see a lot of us get to. I think too, now that we tend to have families later in life. I had my son shortly before I turned 35. My partner was almost 40 at that time. 

Colleen Barrows [00:20:01]: 

Right. 

Linzy Bonham [00:20:01]: 

So it’s like you’re. We’re also kind of coming into some of our peak earning years professionally when we’re now in these new baby days. 

Colleen Barrows [00:20:07]: 

Yes. 

Linzy Bonham [00:20:08]: 

Which is not a great combo. 

Colleen Barrows [00:20:09]: 

Yeah. And that’s true because of course, professionally. 

Linzy Bonham [00:20:11]: 

We want to show up and like make the money that we’ve built the career capital to be able to get. And yet we have these little people who need us. 

Colleen Barrows [00:20:18]: 

Yes. 

Linzy Bonham [00:20:19]: 

And are like growing up by the day, you know, I think there’s a core tension there. And I’m curious, like, when you think about that, what do you notice thinking about these kind of two things in your life, overlapping, coinciding? 

Colleen Barrows [00:20:32]: 

Yeah. It just feels very true. I mean, that’s true of me too. I think I was 36 when my daughter was born. So, yeah, it feels true. And I’m not sure what to do with that. Exactly. 

Linzy Bonham [00:20:46]: 

Yes. 

Colleen Barrows [00:20:46]: 

Okay. 

Linzy Bonham [00:20:48]: 

So thinking about what to do with that, then I want to. I want to zoom out on your life a little bit. I want to zoom out like a lot. Let’s say you’re 85 years old. 

Colleen Barrows [00:20:58]: 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:20:59]: 

Okay. And you’re looking back at your life. You’re reflecting on the choices that you’ve made. You know, your kids are grown. They probably have their own kids at this time. Maybe they live in the same city as you. Maybe they’ve moved far away. Right. 

Linzy Bonham [00:21:13]: 

When you’re looking back at this time in your life 45 years from now, what will be important? What are you gonna be noticing? 

Colleen Barrows [00:21:26]: 

I feel really tender as you said that. Like, almost tearful. Just, I mean, thinking about my kids. Right. Just like that. Both of them. But particularly my 2 year old, just, you know, the season before he starts school and where. Yeah, the time with him just feels really important. 

Colleen Barrows [00:21:43]: 

And with my daughter, like, she has a lot of big needs and pouring into our home and into them, I think is. Feels like the most important. 

Linzy Bonham [00:21:53]: 

And if that was the most important thing, what would look different right now about the way you’re structuring your time. 

Colleen Barrows [00:22:01]: 

I’m struggling with. Exactly. You know, I think following that thought that I’ve had about taking Thursdays off, like, I think that feels like a starting point. Or Thursday mornings, at least for now. Maybe the whole day at some point. Point. But I think having some protected time, where it feels like it’s so easy for time to get swallowed up by a lot of different things. And so having some protected time that is intentional and special with my son, with my daughter, at other times of the day. 

Colleen Barrows [00:22:32]: 

So aside from thinking about blocks of time, I’m not exactly sure what needs to change, but I think that’s a good starting point. 

Linzy Bonham [00:22:41]: 

Yeah. Because I am thinking too about the kind of quality over quantity aspect too, where there is something to be said for quality and just kind of being. Or, sorry, quantity and just kind of being around and available. And that has its benefits, but also the quality, like, when we really could be intentional about having time with our kids. And, like, this is our special morning together. What are we gonna do? What are our special things we do together on Thursday morning? This is our, you know, mommy kiddo time together. That has a real impact on our kids. Right. 

Linzy Bonham [00:23:10]: 

And also I think for. I’m thinking for him too. And you have this on Mondays, and this could be something that you have to play on Mondays too. But it’s just knowing, like, Mondays is mummy day. We do these fun things together, you know, this is our special stuff that we do. Just us. Those are the resources kids call on later in therapy, you know? You know, to counter the other things that have been challenging in life is having that secure, attached relationship with their parents. And we don’t actually have to be around every day, all day to do that. 

Colleen Barrows [00:23:37]: 

Yeah, right. 

Linzy Bonham [00:23:39]: 

In fact, I would say some, like, stay at home parents who I can think of from my own childhood friends, parents who stayed at home didn’t actually have a better relationship with their kids than my mom did with me because they weren’t in balance. Right. If they were, like, resentful and had, like, put dreams aside to be home, then that wasn’t necessarily great energy they were bringing to their parenting relationship. Right. Like, I think we all have our own balance to strike. So it also makes me curious for you, as we’re thinking about these time blocks, what is that balance for you right now, thinking about your kiddos? You’ve got two. You want to have some individual time with each of them. What would your schedule look like if you were making sure that you got in that quality time with them that you want? 

Colleen Barrows [00:24:20]: 

I mean, I don’t think it’s so far away from what I’m currently doing, because I agree with you, there are times where I. I think I don’t necessarily want to be home with them all the time either. I enjoy the work that I do. I get a lot of meaning out of it, but I just want to do a little less of it and feel a little more well rounded. So, yeah, I do think that bringing intentionality and not letting Mondays be swallowed by tasks, it’s so easy for me to kind of just be in catch up mode and cleaning mode and maybe trying to have that intentionality around the time that I do already have built in and maybe planning to try some other time as well. I think that’s what I’m struck with, is just needing to not let it. It’s so easy for it to disappear into cleaning land or running errands land or something else like that. Yeah, yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:25:11]: 

I’m hearing you’re spending a lot of your time doing what in ifs language would be managing. You’re doing a lot of managing work. Right. Like you’re running a business, you’re managing household finances. You’re bringing the money, and then when you’re home, you. There’s still this managing mode of like cleaning errands, taking care of tasks. 

Colleen Barrows [00:25:31]: 

Yeah. And I think, you know, that’s a part of the conversation I need to have with my husband. And we have had ongoing. But I do still feel like the house manager. Absolutely. And the one holding all of that pressure too. And I can, you know, I feel the energy that my resentment, you know, it takes a lot of energy to be resentful. 

Linzy Bonham [00:25:49]: 

Yes, it does. 

Colleen Barrows [00:25:50]: 

And so, you know, I think there’s some things in that world that ideally I could shift my focus when I do have time with the kids, because I do have that time, but it’s often taken up by the managing of the household, I think. Often. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:26:06]: 

Yeah. Because as I’m looking, you know, hearing where you are now and where you want to be in terms of your kids, I feel like in terms of the time with your kids, you’re only at like a tweak place. Just need to tweak a little. It’s like, you know, add Thursday mornings into the mix maybe, or maybe Mondays adding some more intentional stuff that you do to get out of the house so that manager part of you can’t take over. 

Colleen Barrows [00:26:27]: 

Yeah, yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:26:28]: 

You know, having like a park that you go to or you always go to a certain bakery to have a little, you know, date, whatever that is. Right. So I’m hearing that’s all very tweakable, but in the broader context, with the stuckness, I am really wondering about the Balance with your husband and how much that is contributing to, like, a stuck feeling. Because it just seems overwhelming. The amount that you’re carrying is overwhelming. And feeling stuck is a very natural extension to overwhelm. 

Colleen Barrows [00:26:54]: 

Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s very true. I think that contributes a lot to the feeling I hold in my body is just like, so much falls on me. And that’s a conversation we have had and need to continue to have. 

Linzy Bonham [00:27:08]: 

But yeah, because I would also say too, as you’re thinking about the household, if being the household manager is not actually something that he’s naturally skilled at, if that’s not something that he’s good at, maybe it’s not something that actually he likes. There are some folks, some men who stay home and women who love being the household manager, they’re like, I made this amazing dinner. I found this really cool cleaning thing. Some folks thrive in that role. I’m not getting that vibe in terms of taking care of that part of your life. So as I’m thinking about just all of the things that need to be taken care of your life. If your husband doesn’t have the proclivity. 

Colleen Barrows [00:27:45]: 

Is that the word, proclivity? 

Linzy Bonham [00:27:47]: 

Yeah, yeah, proclivity. Thank you. To be the household manager, then he should probably be contributing more to the household in the ways that. That he can show up, which is earning some more money in this handyman work, if that’s something he’s naturally skilled at. Right. Because what I’m thinking too, is if you have some more money coming in from his side, also, maybe a cleaner comes to your house on Mondays and you and your son leave. 

Colleen Barrows [00:28:08]: 

Yeah, right. 

Linzy Bonham [00:28:09]: 

Like when we have money coming into the household from the things that we’re naturally skilled at, we can turn that money into services from other folks who love cleaning. 

Colleen Barrows [00:28:18]: 

Yes. 

Linzy Bonham [00:28:19]: 

Right. And so I don’t even know if you really should be the person cleaning your house. You know, compared to your skills and the other things like that, you can get paid good money for, you know, get paid $190 an hour to support somebody in their perinatal journey, which would cover a cleaner doing your house once a week or maybe even more. I’m not sure what the going rate. 

Colleen Barrows [00:28:39]: 

Is where you are. 

Linzy Bonham [00:28:41]: 

Right. So I’m also thinking it seems to me like the energy money balance is off in your relationship. 

Colleen Barrows [00:28:51]: 

Yeah, I think so. And even hearing you talk about the cleaner, I feel a sense of relief and like, yeah, we did do that once a month for a time, and that cleaner is not available anymore. But I do think that that is a place, one of maybe many that we need to invest, free up some time with, spending money on that. Because time is really what I’m craving, and I’m feeling resentful that I don’t get enough of it to spend the way that I want. 

Linzy Bonham [00:29:19]: 

Yes. Because right now, your time is being prioritized into turning that into income. 

Colleen Barrows [00:29:24]: 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:29:26]: 

And that’s where the lion’s share of your energy is going to. Which, you know, on one hand is wonderful that you’re able to earn a lot for your time, but also your time is part of your one and only human life. 

Colleen Barrows [00:29:36]: 

Yes. 

Linzy Bonham [00:29:37]: 

So I’m hearing there’s other things that are calling for your time and energy. 

Colleen Barrows [00:29:41]: 

Yes. 

Linzy Bonham [00:29:41]: 

Beyond just earning money for your household. 

Colleen Barrows [00:29:44]: 

Yeah. I think that feels good to lean into that and think about how to have more of that. 

Linzy Bonham [00:29:49]: 

As we’re coming towards the end of our time. What do you see as your next steps coming out of this conversation? 

Colleen Barrows [00:29:54]: 

I do think, continuing to tweak some of the time with the kiddos and the intentionality of that, I think I’m struck by just needing to be more intentional with how I am spending the time that I do have with them. But also, there has been a growing need for this conversation with my husband to really sit down and look at the finances, look at how time is spent, and how maybe we can make some changes in our household. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:30:22]: 

So having that conversation. And I would really encourage you to look at the numbers to look at, like, okay, I want to get to a point where you’re working two full days a week, and that’ll mean you’re earning this much, which means we can replace this part of my income. And also, I will just reflect to you, early parenthood is a very expensive time of life. Kids just need so much from us. They need so much of our time. And there’s other expenses that come up as well, but primarily it’s just that kind of childcare piece of, like, is one of you with a child? Are you paying somebody else for childcare? So this is gonna be a tighter time financially for you. And I wanna just reflect that this is a chapter that will end, and then you’ll be into a new chapter when kiddos are in school and you’re both able to work during the days. So thinking about this as this too shall pass, this is actually kind of a fleeting time in your life. 

Linzy Bonham [00:31:10]: 

So how do you best wanna manage this little window of time together? 

Colleen Barrows [00:31:14]: 

Yeah, I think that’s such a good reminder that it. It’s Fleeting in the hard ways, and it’s fleeting in the hopeful ways, too. It will be hard to say goodbye to this, and it will bring some relief, too. Yeah. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:31:26]: 

What are you noticing coming to the end of our conversation? 

Colleen Barrows [00:31:29]: 

I think just some hope and spaciousness to think about, refocusing my attention, refocusing that energy, and also just remembering what does matter and that this isn’t a forever decision. This is left for right now. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham [00:31:43]: 

Thank you. Thank you for joining me today, Colleen. 

Colleen Barrows [00:31:45]: 

Thank you, Linzy. 

Linzy Bonham [00:31:52]: 

I really appreciate Colleen coming on the podcast today to share with all of us about the puzzle that she’s working out right now. That pain of breadwinning is really real, especially when in Colleen’s case, you’re still like the primary household manager when you have kids. So you’d also love to be able to have more time to be present with your children. It is a lot, a lot of pressure to be a main breadwinner in a household, especially when you’re also wearing those other hats. So, so much of that breadwinner piece, as Megan Megginson and I talked about on our breadwinning episode that started off this season, is having that clear communication with your partner, looking at the different kinds of contributions that you’re both making, making sure that you are in balance, that you are striking a certain type of equity between the two of you. And if you’re not having clear conversations about that, and I think the conversation that Colleen and her partner will be able to have will involve some numbers. You know, what is the actual math of how she can scale back a bit, do more of what she enjoys, and he can see scale up, work a bit. What does that schedule look like? What does the math look like to keep them at a place where they’re still paying their bills and meeting their obligations, but also making sure that they are building a life where Colleen can be present with her kids and, you know, not have regrets later about not being present during these precious years where your kiddos are really small and they’re years that that fly by. 

Linzy Bonham [00:33:21]: 

So thank you to Colleen, to coming on the podcast today and talking about something that I know many of us feel very deeply as therapists and parents and breadwinners. Thanks so much for joining me today. I’m Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and the creator of Money Skills for Therapists. If you are ready to go from money confusion and fear to feeling clear and empowered, then my free on demand masterclass is the best place to start. You’re going to learn my four step framework to get your private practice finances really working for you. Register today using the link in the show notes or go to moneynutsandbolts.com under masterclass. I look forward to supporting