Meet Erin Elmore

Erin [00:00:04]  What is my fee and what’s actually sustainable, and so I use that kind of algorithm or whatever you want to call it, to realize, OK, I have to charge what, to me seems like an uncomfortable amount in order to not burn out and still make enough to pay off my loans little by little. 

Linzy [00:00:29] Welcome to the Money Skills For Therapists podcast, where we answer this question. How can therapists and health practitioners go from money, shame and confusion to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham therapist turned money coach and creator of the course Money Skills For Therapists. Hello, and welcome back to the Money Skills For Therapists podcast. Today’s episode is brought to you by the waitlist for Money Skills For Therapists. Coming into this new year, if you are ready to finally get money really working for you and your private practice, if you’re ready to no longer feel confused or stressed about money and instead feel clear and calm and confident, then definitely jump on the waitlist for Money Skills For Therapists. That way, you will be the first to know when doors to the course open again, which is going to happen pretty soon. The link for that is in the show notes. So on today’s episode, I am joined by Dr. Erin Elmore. Erin is a psychologist turned educational coach, and we dig today into her experiences, basically moving in and out of private practice. In her practice, she worked with children and families and adolescents. So we dig in today about setting fees for specific niches and really that value of recognizing the specific things that you do because of your specialty that are valuable to your clients. We talk about these as boundaries with clients, and she shares about her experience with paying off six-figure student debt in four years, which is incredible. So if you’re looking for some tips on how to structure your practice to really serve you and also serve the clients that you’re serving and some inspiration and tips on paying off student debt, this is definitely the episode for you. So, Erin, welcome to the podcast. 

Erin [00:02:38] Thank you. I’m very happy to be here. 

Linzy [00:02:40] So, Erin, before we kind of get into some of the stuff we wanted to dig into today, I would love for you to share with people listening a little bit about your, kind of journey or trajectory as a private practice therapist, because I think it’s maybe a little bit different than some people listening in that you’re out of private practice right now. Maybe for now, maybe forever. So let’s let’s talk about, just briefly kind of your journey through private practice. 

Erin [00:03:04] Yes, definitely. So when I first got license, I worked at a group practice for a year to see if I liked that setting and kind of learn the ropes, and then I decided to go out on my own. So I did have my own private practice for about three years. And then more recently, I have closed my private practice and moved into working for this company called Triad. They’re really like, becoming the leading provider of education and career resources for behavioral and mental health. So they provide resources for social work, MFT, psychologists, counseling. And so as a psychologist, I do licensing exam coaching for the national EPPP exam and also I’m in California, so I provide coaching for the state licensing exam in California. So technically my role is Educational Consultant, right now. Yeah, there’s other little things I do as well, but most of it is coaching, so that’s where I find myself now. Yeah. Right. 

Linzy [00:03:57] So you’re a psychologist. You kind of did private practice for three years, and right now you’ve stepped in to basically like educational coaching. 

Erin [00:04:03] Exactly. Yes. 

Linzy [00:04:05] OK. So tell me about the work that you were doing when you were in private practice. What was your niche? 

Erin [00:04:10] Yeah. So my specialty all through grad school and then in private practice is working with families, kids, teens and families. So all the way up till probably age like 25. So I did a lot of individual work, but also a lot of co-parent sessions and family sessions and parent-child sessions. 

Linzy [00:04:26] Right. Yes. Which is like a very specific niche in terms of like all those different configurations. 

Erin [00:04:32] Yes, it’s almost like four separate specialties in one. Yes. 

Linzy [00:04:36] Yes. So I’m wondering for you then, being that as it was where you have all these like different types of sessions that you’re doing with your clients, how did that affect money in your practice? Like, for instance, like how did you think about charging for those, that different type of work that you were doing all within your one practice? 

Erin [00:04:53] Yeah, really interesting question. So I mean, coming out of my training, everything was very by the book. And so I assumed, OK, 45 minute sessions, one fee, that’s just how it’s going to be. But the child-family world has so many unique needs and timeframes that I realized that it made more sense to be a bit more individualized. So one thing I would do is if I had a family session, I would book an hour and a half and I would charge kind of a pro-rated rate for that time. So those sessions would actually be more expensive. But it just felt right because I always felt like I was rushing if it was 45 minutes to an hour for those sessions and you’re working so much harder, the more people there are in the room, so families totally understood that and were fine with that. Or I often checked in with parents by phone. There’s always extra phone calls and extra check ins that you do as a child therapist. And so I started charging just per 15 minutes for those types of calls. So if it’s just a quick check in, no worries. But you know, if I’m spending 30 minutes here or there, 10 minutes here or there, it adds up. And so I ended up charging for those extra supplemental times. I knew some child therapists that would charge, like if they visited the school, they would charge a transportation fee. Some would charge more for certain evening times that were more desirable and charge less for other session times. 

Linzy [00:06:11] Like premium spots, yeah. 

Erin [00:06:12] Exactly. I didn’t end up doing that, but there’s just so many different ways, I think you can individualize the fee structure that we don’t hear about often in grad school. 

Linzy [00:06:22] Absolutely. Yeah, and something I really appreciate about that, and I’m curious if that was always kind of – if that came naturally to you or not, I’m going to ask you that in a minute, but I know so many people listening struggle with that. Where it’s like, we’re almost like, so in our niche that we don’t realize that there’s things that are special about it and there’s things that we are doing that are specialized and exceptional and are valuable to our clients, right, beyond just sitting together in that room. And what I’m hearing is, you really built a practice that recognized all those different pieces of work that you are doing, right, of using your clinical skills that went beyond just sitting in that room. 

Erin [00:06:58] Exactly. Yes. Yes, exactly. And I will say I didn’t have that idea on my own, soI learned that from consulting with other child therapists and actually even more seasoned therapists who maybe worked with adults, but they had been in the field for a long time in private practice. And it didn’t come natural to assert my fee or these unusual structures, but I thought it out ahead of time. So by the time I had my first client, I was like, Hey, this is just how I do it. But it felt very unnatural, I had to work up the courage to say, Yeah, I’m going to charge you if you call me after hours because your kid is having trouble and we have a therapy session. And so it took, I would say it probably took a good year before I felt fine doing that, but I’m really glad that I did because our time is valuable, you know? 

Linzy [00:07:44] Well, and I’m curious, what do you think the impact that that had on those clinical relationships? How did that impact your relationship with those clients or families? 

Erin [00:07:52] I was surprised that it was harder for me than it was for them because I think everybody was like, OK, cool. Yeah, that’s fine. And I think it did sort of set the bar for certain, not every family, but some families who struggle with boundaries or need a more hand-holding. It really sort of was a buffer naturally for me that, you know, they would think twice before calling like, Do I really need to call Dr. Elmore or can we figure this out on our own? And so it sort of empowered them to practice the skills we’ve been working on and not just use me as like an easy coping skill because they would have to pay for a little bit of that time. And you know, it’s up to you, sometimes you can wave it. 

Linzy [00:08:29] Yeah, you get to make the rules. 

Erin [00:08:30] You get to make the rules. But I did find it helpful to have that policy to fall back on with certain families. And I think they may have appreciated it too, because it gave them a chance to again, practice what they’re learning on their own first. 

Linzy [00:08:42] Yeah. I mean, you’re setting clear professional boundaries. There you go. That’s something that really strikes me and something that I notice is, you know, sometimes as therapists and other types of health practitioners as well as coaches like, we’re doing it because we care and it’s easy to think that we’re doing somebody a favor by being on the phone with them for half an hour. At the end of the day, even though we’re tired and we want to go home, you know, or by doing a visit somewhere and it takes a lot of your time, but you don’t charge for it cause you’re like, Well, but this isn’t a therapy session, right? It’s so easy to justify not enforcing boundaries and not charging fees around those things. But what I’m hearing is like for some families, those clear boundaries are absolutely essential because there is boundary pushing, or there could have been a tendency to lean on you heavily rather than actually owning their skills and practicing those skills. 

Erin [00:09:28] Exactly. 

Linzy [00:09:29] But I think with all clients, there’s truth to that. Right. And as you say, we get to be flexible. We get to choose like, you know what? I’m waiving our phone call this time, this time it’s fine. But you’re making that active choice and they know that they’re accessing you in a professional manner. 

Erin [00:09:43] Exactly. 

Linzy [00:09:43] You’re not a friend who’s available for a little phone call because they’re having a moment of crisis. 

Erin [00:09:47] Right. And I think people know, they can feel if you’re in it for the money or if you’re in it to help them. And so at least my clients don’t have a problem with that because they knew – I mean, it was hard for me to do that, so they knew that I really wanted to just help them. 

Linzy [00:10:00] Yes. 

Erin [00:10:00] It never became a problem, at least as far as – no one brought it up or, you know, push back on it, which was really nice. And I kind of expected somebody to at some point, but nobody did. I think people, you know, they know that you’re professional and they want to pay for your services. I think that’s OK. I think it’s OK for us to say, Well, here’s my fee then. 

Linzy [00:10:17] And I think that’s so often the truth that it’s harder for us than it is for them. 

Erin [00:10:20] Yeah. 

Linzy [00:10:21] You know, we make up stories sometimes about our clients and their resilience or their financial situations or their ability to hear “no” or to receive a boundary like, we can make up all these stories, you know, maybe based on our own families of origin or our own, you know, stuff, you know, for lack of a better term. But so often, like you said, they make no deal of it at all. It’s like, Oh, OK, yeah, now they know your boundaries there. 

Erin [00:10:43] Now they know. And I will say the one area I had struggled with, or would go back and do different is fee reductions. So I had several families that were like, Hey, we want to get our kid involved in jujitsu and soccer and et cetera, like, can we do a reduced fee or some of them are more serious, like, you know, somebody lost their job and needed a reprieve. And so that was hard for me because I was always very agreeable, but it’s so much harder to get back to your normal fee when you have given a discount. Sometimes it’s very legitimate and I had no problem doing it. And sometimes in the course of a few weeks later, the child would tell me like, Oh, we just bought all new bedroom furniture for me and we’re going to Disneyland. And I was just sitting there thinking like, And you’re not paying me my regular fee, what’s going on?

Linzy [00:11:24] I know, I know. 

Erin [00:11:26] So then – so that was hard, and I think that was probably where I was the most awkward, is asserting the follow up conversation of, Hey, you know, let’s revisit this fee reduction. I hear this, this and this, you know, can we go back to the regular? And I think that was always the hardest part because you want to be considerate of what people are going through, but you know, you also need to get paid.

Linzy [00:11:47] Yes, you do. And I think that resentment, whether we like it or not, does come into the clinical relationship at some level, right? Like if we hear that – I remember a client who I worked with, sliding scale, who I loved working with, she was a long standing client, but she went to Iceland twice in like a year. And I was like damn, I want to go to Iceland. Like having that little part of me, like that little like what? That’s unfair. You’re paying me like $60 less than my fee. And you’re going to Iceland twice. Right? And like that does impact our work on some level. It doesn’t mean that we give bad service or that we’re cold to them or something like that, but it’s not a great thing to have in the relationship at all. Right? Like, we should also feel respected and like, we are getting the compensation that we need to be well as much as somebody who is able. 

Erin [00:12:30] And I think it helps people appreciate their sessions, too and know when they’re ready to graduate. Because if they’re just getting it for almost free, they’ll just come forever, and then it’s really awkward to say, OK, I think you’re ready to graduate because you’ve become a resource in their life. So yeah, I think there is that balance of, you know, there’s a reason that we have a fee and it really does help keep, like you said, the professional boundaries around. 

Linzy [00:12:50] Absolutely. And something I would notice sometimes when I’d raise my fee, is I never had a client quit because I was raising my fee. Like, I, you know, the fear is that your client is going to be like, You’re greedy, how dare you? I’m never coming back here. I’ve never had that happen, not even a version of that. 

Erin [00:13:06] Same. 

Linzy [00:13:06] But what I have had is people who already, I was starting to feel like, do they still need to be here? And I would raise my fee and two or three sessions later, they’re like, I think I’m good. Right, like, it just gives them that little nudge for them to also realize that like, yeah, as you say, maybe I’ve become a resource in their life, but do they really want to pay me my full fee anymore? 

Erin [00:13:24] Exactly, yes. It is a sort of reset or a reevaluation of where are we at with this? And is this worth it or not for you and for me? Yeah, I think that’s a good point. 

Linzy [00:13:34] So, as a psychologist, I’m going to guess that you have done a lot of schooling, as is the way. 

Erin [00:13:38] Yes, it is the way. 

Linzy [00:13:41] And we were chatting a little bit before we started recording about debt, student debt. Right. And your experience with it. I’m really curious about – for you, your experience with student debt, being a psychologist and doing the amount of education you did. What did that look like for you coming out of school? 

Erin [00:13:56] Yes, I have had such an evolution with student debt, so I think I was like most people that I know, most of my colleagues. So when I started the program, a grad program, it just seemed so easy to take out student debt. You know, the program’s pretty rigorous and it didn’t make sense to try and work through it, although some people do, I admire them for that. I just, for some reason decided not to. So I took out student loans, and if I could go back in time, I would not do that. I hate student loans, I’m sure most of our listeners do, too. Yeah. And it just, it was presented to me, and I’m sure most people like, that’s just what you do. It’s just it’s so easy. It’s like it makes no sense that you can just click two buttons and be in debt so deeply. Because I mean, who reads those forms? I didn’t read those forms in front. You know, there’s no screening procedure, or anything, and it just seems so easy. And so I went down that route, and of course over the six years or whatever that I was in school, it just sort of snowballed and I did my best to keep up with the interest, but it was harder than I thought it would be. My plan was to pay off the interest throughout the program, when the loans were frozen. And so then my genius idea was, you know, by the time I graduate, then I’ll just have the actual loan amount to pay off or maybe even a little bit less. But that just, you know, good intentions, it just didn’t end up happening. And so then upon graduation, I just felt so – like this weight of how am I going to get this handled? And obviously, I was very well educated and I loved my field and I wanted to work, it wasn’t that. But I really felt like my options were limited as far as what I could do to survive with this mountain of debt I had at that point. 

Linzy [00:15:32] And can I ask you Erin, can I ask you how much debt you had or are you open to talking about real numbers? 

Erin [00:15:37] It wasn’t the six figure range, so it was a lot. 

Linzy [00:15:40] Yeah, okay. 

Erin [00:15:41] Not not like deep in the six figures, just like barely in the six figures, but it was, yeah, it was significant where I would get anxiety, like checking on it, you know? Yeah, it’s just always – it’s like a little living thing that’s always with you.  

Linzy [00:15:55] So many therapists just don’t even look at it, right? Like this is what I’ve noticed is it almost feels so large and surmountable that it’s just like this – the attitude I’ve heard from some therapists who’ve joined my courses like, it feels like it’s just been with you forever. Like, you’re like, This is just mine till I literally die. And that’s the only way I’ll be free of it. 

Erin [00:16:13] For sure, because it’s not an even understandable number. You know, it’s like I’ve never seen that much money in one space in my life, and suddenly I owe this amount of money. Like, how is this possible? And so it’s so hard to even wrap your mind around that, yes, it’s very defeating, it’s like, Well, I guess I’m just going to be in debt until I’m 60. Or, you know, yeah, if I die, it’ll get paid off, that’s a solution, you know, like – I mean, well, not not like I’m suicidal. I just mean, like, you know, lying on my death bed at 90 or whatever then finally, it’ll go away. 

Linzy [00:16:40] At least that student debt’s going to be gone, right? Yeah. 

Erin [00:16:42] Yeah. So it just seems so overwhleming – and obviously, I knew the path was like, OK, just paid off, like little by little bit. So that’s a huge reason why I actually went into private practice. I mean, I love love working with clients, I really do. But I felt like that was the only way to make money quick enough without burning out. And actually, most of my training was at nonprofits, and so I actually really enjoy working at nonprofits or community mental health clinics. But I just – looking at the numbers, I was like, Yeah, that’s not doable for me. So that’s how I ended up in private practice, and I really, really loved it. But over the last three to four years or so, my husband and I have found a way to actually pay off my student loans, which I still cannot believe. So I’m sitting here without that weight on my shoulders. 

Linzy [00:17:27] It’s incredible. 

Erin [00:17:27] It is, and I – four years ago, I would have thought that was a miracle. And so because of that, now I have more opportunities to do other things. It’s not that I didn’t love private practice, I may end up doing that again at some point, but I had this opportunity with Triad and you know, was able to actually not see clients for the first time because that debt wasn’t there and it just feels so different. 

Linzy [00:17:46] Totally – that’s a really interesting perspective that you had, that you recognized the income earning potential of private practice. Because I think so many therapists, even therapists who are in it, haven’t worked out their numbers in such a way yet that they feel like, this is an easy way to make money. I think a lot of therapists feel like this is a hard way to make money. I’m curious for you, Erin. Like, what are some of the specific things in the way that you did in building your practice, that made it like a real income generator for you and allowed you to accomplish this incredible thing and pay off this student debt? 

Erin [00:18:17] Yeah. Well, I agree. It’s easy, but it’s also so hard because the clinical hours are hard, but on paper it is easier to make money there. Yeah. So one thing was I actually realized, that first year when I was in a group practice as an independent contractor doing therapy, I realized I have to get out of this setting because I’m doing everything, but part of my money is going to someone else. And I wasn’t sure about the paperwork and billing and all of that, so I’m glad I was there that year to learn those things. But I realized like, I could do this, like, I’m pretty organized. I can handle and take paperwork, I can schedule my own clients, I don’t really need marketing anymore, like, you know, so I realize one thing was just actually being on my own, which was a little scary, especially newly licensed. But then all the money is mine, you know? So that was one thing, and I created a structure of support around me with consultations and old supervisors I would check in with, so I didn’t feel super clinically alone. But that’s where the money was, was being on your own. And then I went through this process, I’m sure you explain in your podcast of trying to figure out, what is my fee and what’s actually sustainable? And so I used that kind of algorithm or whatever you want to call it, to realize, OK, I have to charge what to me seems like an uncomfortable amount, in order to not burn out and still make enough to pay off my loans little by little. And then I just worked my butt off, like really long days. And I think that honestly, that’s part of the reason I now want a break from private practice. I think the weight of student loans made me work so hard. I don’t want to say I was burnt out, but it was like headed that way. And if I didn’t have that weight, I would have had a more reasonable client schedule. But yeah, I hustled, I hustled for three years to make that money, yeah.

Linzy [00:20:00] It sounds like you kind of did private practice like fast and furious, and now you’re taking a break from it. 

Erin [00:20:05] Exactly, yes. And so, you know, I look back and I’m like, Man, if I didn’t have student loans, maybe I would still be doing it. Maybe I would have done the same thing, but just slower and enjoyed it more. And don’t get me wrong, I love my clients, I really do and miss them. But yeah, it’s like, it’s just it’s the way my path ended up, so it’s interesting. Yeah.

Linzy [00:20:24] Yeah. And I mean, thinking about your journey through private practice, it’s interesting because I feel like, I also feel like I kind of went through private practice fast and furiously. But in my case, it’s that I didn’t work too much, but I chose a really intense niche. Like I was kind of doing work when I first got into practice that other people were like, Oh, you’re too young for that. And I kind of. 

Erin [00:20:43] Oh, I would have referred to you those cases then.

Linzy [00:20:45] Like kind of dived in with two feet and like, did this really intense, really gratifying work. But like, it’s hard to sustain, right? When you’re doing something so intensely, whether it’s the amount of sessions you’re doing or the type of work that you’re doing. And what I’m hearing from you is, by being so diligent and focused and like working together with your husband to pay down this debt, now you have the choice to not have to do that. You’re not stuck there and now you’re able to go do different work. 

Erin [00:21:12] Right, yeah. I was surprised how much I was leaning towards not doing it once I had the option because I really did enjoy it. But it’s, you know, money shapes so much of our decisions because it’s not an option, it’s a must, it’s a need, you know, you need to make that money. And so then with that removed, I mean, don’t get me wrong, I still need to make some money. But with the weight of that removed, I was surprised how many other things I was interested in as well, that just weren’t even an option before. 

Linzy [00:21:40] And I’ve definitely seen many of therapists that I’ve met at like a trauma conference or whatever who I’m like, Oh, should you still be doing this work? You know, like, are you – is your heart really still in this? Are you? Are you super burnt out and you have been for a decade? But I think people sometimes do feel trapped and they don’t feel like they have the option to make a move somewhere else or try something different. And so they do continue practicing, even when their heart’s not in it. And I have to say, like, I don’t think there’s any way that doesn’t impact, you know, the clients. 

Erin [00:22:08] Absolutely, yeah. 

Linzy [00:22:09] So obviously, you’re somebody who is very like, diligent and focused around money with this like incredible thing that you accomplished paying off the student debt. I’m curious for people who are listening today who are like, That’s great for Aaron, but holy shit, I would have idea how to do that, I have no idea how to start. What would you suggest for them as a first step in starting to build a better relationship with money, build up their confidence, more knowledge? 

Erin [00:22:32] So glad you asked that because that was me, that was me a few years ago or during grad school, so the number one thing – well, number two things that helped. One was budgeting, which I know can make you want to run for the hills, especially when you budget and you’re like, Yeah, I have negative money, this is not helpful. But just knowing down to the penny where your money is going, what you’re spending it on, sometimes it feels like you get a raise when you do that because you realize, Oh, I’m like, frivolously spending this on, you know, DoorDash or something and I don’t need to. You know, especially during the pandemic, it’s just so embarrassing. Or maybe it’s just, nothing’s labeled and so you don’t realize, Oh, like, I have this extra money I’m just kind of sitting on and I could put it to use or put it towards my goals. So being disciplined and getting help, if you need to about how to actually set up a budget monthly, track exactly what you’re doing. This works for your business, too, you would need a budget for your outgo and income with your business, and so doing it for your personal life is helpful, too. So that was one thing just to help – it was hard at first because I was like, Oh wow, this is a big mess that I’m in. But at least then you know what you’re dealing with and then you can figure out, OK, what’s next? Like, How do I get out of this? And then the second thing that was super helpful was my husband and I followed The Dave Ramsey plan, he is pretty conservative, so it may not be everyone’s cup of tea. But you know, the principles that he teaches are super helpful, very practical, that was the number one thing that actually helped us get out of debt. And I didn’t think that was possible, but here I am, and it’s possible. And I had the six-figure debt, it was a lot. So he has a podcast called The Ramsey Show or I think his website’s ramseysolutions.com, and he has step by step plan of how to get out of debt and how to get back on your feet, so that was helpful for us, too. And then on the business end, there’s this book I used to set up my practice, and that’s where I got the idea of how to set the fee. And I’m sure some of that’s repetitive from your listeners, but it was called the Paper Office for the Digital Age. 

Linzy [00:24:30] I have never heard of that book. 

Erin [00:24:32] Yeah, it was actually recommended to me by a lawyer – I consulted with the lawyer just for like 10 minutes of How do I know my paperwork is right for my practice? But they did have interesting things in there about fee setting and managing your time. And so it just helped me sort of create an identity as a private practice therapist, and I was newly licensed and didn’t know what I was doing. 

Linzy [00:24:53] And like that is a, you know, I want to give you props for that because I think it’s so easy to go in and just kind of flail around a little. And it sounds like, what I’m getting from you is you sound like a, you know, you’re diligent, right? Like, you’ve kind of, you did your due diligence, right? You talk to a lawyer. 

Erin [00:25:08] I overthink everything before I do it. That’s a nice way of you saying that, yeah. 

Linzy [00:25:14] Overthinking can, you know, serve a purpose. And it’s sounds like you really used your overthinking for good, right? Like, it’s helped you accomplish a lot. You’ve harnessed that. 

Erin [00:25:23] Yeah, I I’m proud. I am proud I can look back – I had very mixed feelings about deciding to end the practice, but one of them, I was like, Yeah, I’m really proud. Like, I pulled that off early in licensure when a lot of people don’t, and it was successful. And so I am very proud of how well that turned out, but it came from a lot of not knowing and mistakes and just figuring out what I needed, which I think is what we’re all trying to do. 

Linzy [00:25:44] I think that that’s a very good summary of we’re all trying to do. So, Erin, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been so lovely talking to you. 

Erin [00:25:51] Thank you. 

Linzy [00:25:52] I’m curious if people want to learn more about Triad, what are some of the resources that Triad has that could be helpful for our listeners? 

Erin [00:26:01] Yeah, Triad actually just launched, it’s like our version of Facebook and LinkedIn for psychologists, mental health professionals and that’s called hellotriad.com. And Triad is spelled Triad. So if you want to get connected with other professionals or see what CEUs use we’re offering. Sometimes people post blogs on their job opportunities on there. So that’s kind of the hub of communication for Triad. But obviously you can learn a lot more about what Triad is from there as well. 

Linzy [00:26:29] And we do actually have a discount code, if we can use our discount code here. 

Erin [00:26:33] Oh, wow, OK. 

Linzy [00:26:34] People can use the discount code, I’ll share the code in the show notes. So you can also get a discount on CEUs, I believe it’s 10 percent, but take a look in the show notes to see that. 

Erin [00:26:43] That’s great. Yeah, we have exam prep materials, CEUs, and then just kind of a community that you can connect with. 

Linzy [00:26:50] Great. Well, thank you so much, Erin. It was great talking you today. 

Erin [00:26:52] It was so great to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Linzy [00:27:09] Erin’s story about paying off her student debt is so inspiring, I know I’ve said the word inspired many times in this podcast, but it’s rare that you meet someone Erin’s age, she’s probably in her 30s, I’m guessing, Aaron, if I’m wrong, I’m sorry – who has paid down student debt, it’s incredible. And so I hope that for those of you listening who feel maybe disempowered or overwhelmed by your debt, that Erin’s story lets you know that it is possible to pay off the debt. And even if you don’t want to do it like she did, you know which in a certain way did have that cost of kind of doing private practice so hard that now she’s taking a little break from it. It did open up this huge financial freedom for her, that now she can do whatever kind of work she wants. And even if you take some of the tips that she suggested around budgeting and looking at different methods for paying down debt, Dave Ramsey being an example. Then, you can get that much closer to not having that debt hanging over your head and be able to make decisions about money that are rooted in what really makes sense for your life right now and what kind of work you’re drawn to – not kind of getting trapped somewhere because you have the stress of paying down debt. Today’s episode was brought to you by the wait list for Money Skills For Therapists. The New Year is a perfect time to start working on your private practice finances in a real way to set yourself up for success for the rest of the year. So if you’re ready to do that deeper work, jump on the waitlist and you will be the first to know when the doors open for Money Skills For Therapists next. If you want more free money content from us, you can follow me on Instagram @moneynutsandbolts. And if you’re enjoying the podcast, please jump over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review and tell your friends about it. That is the way to get this information to the right ears and get therapists feeling more confident about money and less alone. Thank you so much for listening today.