Meet Randall Avery

Randall [00:00:01] And I think the trouble comes in when there is that communication breakdown. There’s nothing right or wrong. But if you’re open and have full, transparent understanding, what is the expectation of family support? Is there money coming in? Is there going to be a lot of money coming out? Just know that it’s going to happen because I think surprises, financially, is what hurt people the most. It starts financially, but it ends up other things behaviorally that people have to adjust to. 

Linzy [00:00:28] Welcome to the Money Skills For Therapists podcast, where we answer this question: how can therapists and health practitioners go from money shame and confusion, to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham, therapist and money coach, and creator of the course Money Skills For Therapists. Hello and welcome back to season eight of The Money Skills with For Therapists podcast. Uh, kind of blows my mind that we are already at season eight. To be fair, our seasons have 12 episodes, so it’s a little bit arbitrary, but that tells me, you know, that we’ve been really going at this for a while now and I’m so excited to be getting into our next season of conversations about money for therapists. Today’s guest is Randall Avery. He is a certified financial planner, he’s fee-only. Folks who’ve listened before, you’ve heard me talk about the importance of a fee-only financial planner, which means that he’s not selling you anything. He’s just purely working in the service of your financial well-being. And he specializes in working with therapists. Specifically, he mentions on the podcast that he loves working with therapists in private practice and folks who are pre-retirement age as well. Uh, sweet spot sometimes of all three of those folks. So he’s really focused on therapists in his financial planning support that he gives folks. Today, Randall and I really dig into money in personal relationships, which is not something we’ve talked about a huge amount on this podcast so far. When we talk about money in romantic relationships, what to think about as you are choosing a partner or what is important to be communicating about if you’re already in a long-term relationship. Also, we talk about money and relationship with parents, with children, uh, money moving between generations and communication in these relationships. How to foster healthy financial relationships with your parents and children. We talk about how to teach children financial skills and model financial skills. Just so much here in terms of money and family and our daily lives, and what we can do to support our financial well-being and the financial well-being of the people we love and the people around us in daily life, as we’re managing money and having conversations with the people that we care about. Here’s my conversation with Randall Avery. So, Randall, welcome to the podcast. 

Randall [00:03:08] Thank you for having me. 

Linzy [00:03:09] Yeah, I’m excited to have you here. For folks who are listening, who haven’t heard of you yet. I would love for you to tell people a little bit about like what you do and, you know, your focus on therapists, because you specifically serve therapists. 

Randall [00:03:24] That is correct. So I’m a certified financial planner. I’ve been doing this for about seven years, and I have kind of three different niches. So one is mental health professionals. The other one is pre-retirees. And the last one are small business owners. And sometimes a lot of those professionals overlap. So the perfect client for me would be somebody who’s a pre-retiree mental health professional who actually has a practice or a side practice. I really love working with them. One thing that I’ve noticed is they’re really bright. These individuals have went to school for multiple years. Some have doctorates. A lot of them have their masters, so they’re very competent people. But because they’ve been in school so long, they actually did not develop certain money skills. Um, and they’re slightly behind because they spent more years in school versus earning, like their counterparts who also went to college. So this is a unique population that I believe I can add value to, not only with just helping them with money, but also because I have a specialty and a niche that I can help them with different career opportunities that help them move them all in their career. Because a lot of professionals, they want to work with a certain population. But how do I get to that point? How can I service those clients the best way, where different companies in your area that you can help service those professions? 

Linzy [00:04:34] Right. Yeah. I think that’s such an excellent point about education because this is what I noticed too, you know, working with therapists, as you say, like most of them have at least a master’s to be able to do what they do, probably a PhD. And what that kind of extensive, expensive, long-term education does is it really helps you scale up in a certain way, but it keeps you out of the workforce for kind of like what might be some key earning years. And I think it also helps you be like really smart at certain things, but then you’re really not taught other things. So like, folks come out of school really like being able to do great therapy, right? They can do up a great genogram or, you know, whatever modality, but they’ve really not learned many stuff, and they’re used to being really smart and being good at things. And so not only have they not been taught this, but that’s a great point that you make like they’re behind because they’ve been not working and also accumulating a ton of debt in that not working. 

Randall [00:05:31] And I think most professionals fall into that trap. As far as once you turn 28, it’s hard to develop a new skill and perfect it because you’ve been so good in other skills. So things like, you know, fixing a car if you did not grow up doing things like that, doing things around your home, maybe you outsource those type of services. And that’s kind of where I fit in. Clients come to me, you know, they want to be successful financially and I help them out throughout that process. 

Linzy [00:05:55] Mhm. So I’m curious what made you want to serve us, like the therapist who types of the world. What drew you into this niche. And especially like therapists and private practice and like pre-retirees. What calls to you about working with these people? 

Randall [00:06:09] Well I kind of fell into that niche. I kind of was working with clients and I gained a client that was a therapist. And she kind of explained her career, what she’s going through, income opportunities, and I learned more about that profession. And now, a little bit about myself, I’m from the South, and there’s always a slight stigma when it comes to mental health in the South. So I was not exposed to that profession. So hearing her story, how she helps clients, it kind of motivated me to learn a little bit more. And then I learn like there’s different layers. There’s a social worker, there’s a counselor, there’s a psychologist, there’s a psychiatrist, and all these different levels. And not only that, it’s the work you guys do that I think goes unnoticed. A lot of the work you all do is not plastered over the news, but it’s it’s what people deal with on a day-in and day-out basis. And also I’ve noticed that therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, they spend a lot of their time listening. So now they have the opportunity to actually talk. And me being able to allow them to talk and actually listen to them. I kind of found them to be a really great client for me. 

Linzy [00:07:10] Mhm. Yeah. I think that is so true of therapists. Like we tend to spend so much time listening. It’s invisible work because it’s work that also happens like behind closed doors. Right. Like it’s not going to be headline news when somebody has an incredible therapy session because there’s confidentiality and it’s a very private kind of profession. Right. Other people don’t witness the brilliance of therapists. And that’s actually like an interesting piece that I haven’t totally thought about is, like, so many therapists doubt that they’re good at what they do. You know, they have like imposter syndrome. And even though they can think like, well, this client was really successful, that client was really successful. Sometimes they’re like, well, but that person was doing their own work. It wasn’t me, it was them. They would have done it anyways. Or like, well, maybe they were successful, but maybe they were just telling me that, like, we come up with stories because we never get to have somebody else to watch what we do and be like, you’re really good at that. You really. That was really brilliant how you did that. Like, we don’t get witnessed in our work, which is different than some other professions where, you know, you have a boss who’s watching what you do, or you work with a team and people are able to reflect back to you. Your gifts. It’s kind of like a therapist. Like we have to somehow accept that we’re good at what we do without necessarily being able to get that feedback from other people directly. 

Randall [00:08:16] That is correct, because it’s almost you prevent something bad happened. But if something bad doesn’t happen, society just goes on. So I love the work that they all do and anything I can do to help moving forward, I think helpful. And one thing that I also do, I talk to a post-doc programs. So that’s a program where before they become a licensed professional, a lot of students participate in a postdoc program. And me being able to talk to those students, I kind of like say, I’m like the Ghost of Christmas Future. As far as being able to tell them, look out for this, because a lot of my clients say, I wish I would have known this. So I can get them on a head start early on in their career. I think it’s been really valuable and the feedback has been amazing. 

Linzy [00:08:54] Yeah, great. So something that I would love to get into with you is, you know, you work more on the personal side of money. You know, what I do with folks is on the business private practice side of money. I get into like, money stories with people and like, why do we have these certain beliefs or behaviors in service of our business? But you’re really working with people around their personal finances and something that I get asked or about, and that gets brought to me sometimes with my students, is conflicts or complexity with their spouse or partner around money. So I’m curious, like, what have you noticed about money in romantic relationships, like personal relationships? 

Randall [00:09:36] So for therapists, the dynamic is different. So let’s start from the beginning. So they have began romantic relationships sometimes later in life. So they’ve gained their masters, again, their doctorate. So they’re starting around 26/27 years of age. There’s also another counterbalance of societal pressures and societal expectation of when things should happen. So when they go into relationships, they’re almost in an accelerated situation when they think about their romantic relationships. Also, people need to realize who they choose as a partner has significant impact on your financial well-being in this day and age. A dual income household is almost a necessity when we talk about raising an entire family and making sure you’re able to do the things that are necessary, so making sure that you’re choosing the partner that aligns with you personally, but also financially, is important. 

Linzy [00:10:27] I feel like you’re telling my personal story. If I just think about my own, you know, dating life because, yeah, it’s like I finished my master’s. I was already practicing. I was already in my field. I was already doing what I loved. And then I met my partner when I was 29. So then it’s like, okay, we got to go. Like, if we want to have kids and like, have a house and all these things, like we kind of had this accelerated start to our relationship because we didn’t have a lot of time to get to know each other over ten years. Right. It’s like time was a-ticking. But, you know, I think what you bring up is a really an important point, but probably something that’s kind of like hard for folks to hear that, you know, the partner you choose is a huge impact on your financial health, right? Like there’s that financial component. Do you ever notice that people don’t want to think about that? Or like it’s like love should triumph this? Like, what do you say to people who are just like, but it’s not as important as having the right partner or. Yeah, how do we think about that? 

Randall [00:11:21] So I think it’s more about values, which kind of lives with when you decide on a partner. So the value of paying bills on time, the value of, you know, keeping the lights on. The value of holding a job and the values of work ethic. Those things aren’t romantic. But when we talk about sustaining a relationship over time, those are what keep people together and makes you think, well, maybe I should stick this out because there’s going to be ups and downs in relationships. Nothing’s going to be steady. And having somebody that says we have the similar values, we have similar hopes and dreams and aspirations. That’s what I work with clients on a lot. Let’s not talk about the differences. Let’s focus on what we have in common and put money in financing those things. And I think a lot of time when people come together. I think the number one thing is just be transparent. Know your person’s credit score before you move in with them. Know how much they make. Know their occupation, know their past work history. Actually ask for their resume by chance. Those little things where we may laugh that we think are funny, I think will kind of help people forward when they think about their financial future with their partner. 

Linzy [00:12:28] Yeah, because when you’re building a long-term relationship – and this is something that I notice was a difference for me too. The difference between dating in my late 20s and being like, this is my person. Like I’m choosing my person versus like, dating in my early 20s is where the mistakes were made – let’s just say that, right – is you are thinking about somebody that you want to build something with, right? And whatever that is, whether you’re planning to have kids or not, whether you want to have a life where you can travel the world together, right, or not, like you are coming into what almost is almost like a business partnership. I say that – it’s an extremely unromantic thing to say, but you know, this is your person who you’re going to be building your world with, right? And so what I’m hearing from you is like these pieces, they’re often pieces that we don’t ask about and we don’t talk about. And, you know, I was laughing a little bit when you’re saying, like, ask for the resume because it’s just like it’s so contrary to kind of our narratives around like, romance and like, well, but who are they inside? And but that’s actually going to show you like, who is this person, you know, and what is their behaviors. And are you on the same page? And can they give you what you need for the life that you want to build? Because we’re talking about building something that’s like for decades, you know, as you say, where there will be highs and lows, you’re looking at long-term compatibility. 

Randall [00:13:38] And they say a lot of times that opposites attract. But that’s not necessarily true. You may have different things like love language. I like physical touch, I like attention. But when we talk about relationships that make the long haul, they’re usually people that have the same value system, sometimes share the same level of face, um, different things that make them actually more similar than not. So when you’re looking for a partner, take away the esthetics aspects, look at their values and what they believe in, even their family, which I think we’re going to talk about a little bit. 

Linzy [00:14:08] Yeah, absolutely. I will share that, you know, when I met my own partner, who’s now my spouse and my co-parent and all those kinds of things, I made a really deliberate decision to choose those things, right, over, like kind of my, my patterns. And the therapists listening will also know, over my trauma, you know, and what was familiar and comfortable. Like I made a very different decision, and I chose someone who really is like a project partner. Like we like to get things done together. We like to make cool things happen in the world. And that has made for a really satisfying partnership, right? Because we both have that drive. So like we built a backyard cottage that we rent out. We did that two summers ago. That’s a big project, right? Like if I was married to somebody who was like, well, it’s not important to me, I’d rather not, then I wouldn’t be able to create that thing in the world, right? Like there’s so much potential in partnerships to, like, make a life amazing. And there’s also so much opportunity to not have the life that you really want because you’re with somebody who’s just doesn’t want what you want and is not on board. And I think that it’s it’s not what we’re taught to think of when we think long-term. But certainly my own experience has been like, it’s the way to go. Choose the person that you want to build something with, and you want to build the same kinds of things, and you have those values in common, even if you don’t listen to the same music, which was one of my things when we first got together, because, you know, I was like an artsy kid who, like, was used to bonding over people over these certain things. That’s not actually what makes for, you know, a meaningful, functional, long-term relationship. 

Randall [00:15:33] That’s true. You know, we think of the here and now, but think about what would you value in a partner when they’re 60? Um, that’s the things you should think about. You know, what they believe, what they hope, and what they aspire to. The here and now. It is enticing. The esthetics, the looks, the flash, and even the status. But when you’re 60, a lot of that stuff does not matter. Can I laugh with the person? Am I worried about a gambling habit, an addiction habit? These things that are real and I hope people consider these things when I think of a life partner. 

Linzy [00:16:03] Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, for folks listening, like a lot of folks may already be partnered, but I think it also speaks to just like these things are important in relationships, like we’re allowed to want to be with somebody who will support our dreams, who gives us that stability, who, you know, like, you know, as you say, like you can laugh with and those kinds of things as well. But, you know, sometimes when I think about business and money, you know, I think about, like, if this is your one and only human life, like, is this how you want to spend it? And the person that you choose is going to have a huge impact on what your life looks like, right? And you’re allowed to ask for what you actually want, somebody that you can build what you actually want with. Yeah, I think that’s a powerful thing. And I’m sure a lot of folks who are listening, like we tend to be more of those like people pleasers, like self-sacrificing and those kinds of things. But what I’m hearing from you is like finding that person who’s compatible in those important ways is really powerful, both emotionally but also financially. 

Randall [00:17:02] And one last thing I would like to add on to that. There will come a period where your partner’s not working, not bringing steady income. And I think a lot of people don’t consider that even though that person is the breadwinner, they may not want to work that job anymore. Family dynamics change. So really think about everything holistically. As far as you know, if that person wasn’t working, do I still like them? If they didn’t have that title, do I still like them? If we didn’t drive this car and go on those vacations, is that somebody I want to spend the rest of my life with? And I think those answers help. 

Linzy [00:17:35] Absolutely. Yeah. And that has been my own experience. You know, part of me building this business actually was my partner going through a period where he was changing careers and didn’t know what he was doing and wasn’t working, and I was no longer the secondary, like, bonus money earner. It’s like it’s on you. And. Yeah, no, these are these are great questions to ask. So you alluded earlier to the importance of like parent and child relationships. So I’m curious from like your perspective as a financial planner, how should we also be thinking about our relationship with our parents and our children as we’re thinking about our financial well-being? 

Randall [00:18:08] So I have a, I guess, a spectrum. So I have clients that are in their late 30s and have clients in their 70s. So I get to see both sides. I see the parent and the child. And one thing from the parent aspect, I’m working with them, they have saved up enough, they’re successful, and the question is, what am I going to do with this money? Okay. And they would love naturally, the parent would love to give money to their child to make their child’s life a little bit better. But there’s either a relationship issue or there’s behaviors that make giving that child more money that much more at risk. Okay. And now from the child aspect, maybe the parent has done something that I don’t like, maybe that they don’t agree with my career choice or my spouse choice. So there’s that cut off in relationship. And last but not least, we do have a situation where kids are sometimes expected to take care of their parents financially. So really thinking about the generational dynamic, even when we talk about romantic relationships, your ex-spouse, hey, what is the family support that you believe you should have for your family? I think those questions are important, but also maintaining relationships throughout the generation I think could allow for a lot of different planning opportunities, especially wealth transfers. 

Linzy [00:19:24] Right? Yeah, because those parent-child relationships end up forming a lot of our financial picture as well. Yeah. The relationship that you have with parents, the expectations that they have for you to take care of them. Or the expectation that you might have for them to take care of you. If you’re that that generation down. And I have noticed different families have very different expectations and norms around how money moves between generations. 

Randall [00:19:49] That is correct. So I have clients where their parents will give them $10,000 every year. Be nice for that situation. I have clients where parents are going to hold on to their multiple million dollar portfolio until the very end and try to control it, even going as far as putting into a trust. And I also have clients whose parents have not saved anything, and they sweat every day with a health scare going to cause them to have to move in. And I’m going to have to take care of them. So the parents, how you think about your parents, how you think about your kids, does matter. And I say the number one thing is make sure you keep an open relationship. If there isn’t anything that’s going to be traumatic or cause you undue harm, try to keep the relationship going, keep the conversations going, visit, have opening communication, and even bring up money. When I say if a client comes to me and their parents help them put a down payment of their home, that is an amazing financial benefit for them. If I say the client comes to me and say, hey, I’m going to fund my grandkids 529 plan, which is a type of plan that helps fund education. These things help move the needle. Even last thing I want to add is if a grandparent wants to help their kid with education in primary school, making sure they go to a private school versus the local school, these things matter. When we talk about intergenerational benefit and transferring wealth. It’s not just money, but sometimes it’s experiences we have to think about. 

Linzy [00:21:13] Yeah, because it makes me think, too, about how we’re all part of like an ecosystem of relationships, right? And like when you can keep those relationships open and healthy and there’s that communication there to understand what’s happening. There’s also more openness for energy transfer, I’ll put it that way, which can include like money and support and those things because there’s a recognition of like, okay, I have this thing and I could share it with them and that would make a huge difference to their life, because now I understand that they’re struggling in XYZ way, or that there’s this amazing opportunity that they can’t take on their own, but that I could help them with. And I’m able to know that because we have that openness of relationship. And I think that that’s so, so important because something I think about too, is I think about my own family is also knowing what’s happening with my family’s financial situation. And I’m in a situation where my side of the family has real family value around transferring wealth from higher generations to the generations below. Kind of ongoingly in really practical ways, right. Which has been like an incredible gift to receive. And I think it’s like, you know, part of that is, is there is money to be there, but also a big part of it, just that value of like, you know, my aunt saving money for my brother and my cousin and I, we’re just a small little family, for decades before gifting it to us, when we reached a certain point in our life when she thought it would be most useful to us, which is an incredible gift to give, right? And like for me, having received the benefit of somebody being so thoughtful about money in a long-term way, I will be doing the same thing for younger generations like my own child, but also the cousins in the family. If I see financial need, I will be thinking about what a difference those you know money made to me at key times, like when I started school or when I needed money for a down payment, or when I had student loans to pay off. Right. Like there’s these key times in your life where money showing up is so advantageous, and it’s been an incredible gift to have somebody in a higher generation recognizing and thinking about that. Where the other side of my family, my partner, his parents were immigrants and they lost money. Right? Like whenever you immigrate, almost invariably money is lost, right? And status is lost and professionalism is lost. And you kind of start over in a new place. So when I think about our finances, I’m almost thinking of this flow from like my family that’s been in Canada for, I don’t know, 150 years or something insane. And like the stability that they’ve been able to build, that flowing through us and then flowing to my in-laws, you know, over time as, as they’re retiring and as they need more support or more stability. And this backyard cottage that we built like that is all this like ecosystem that we get to be part of that. Thankfully, I’m aware of what money is where, because we have enough communication to know that that’s the case. 

Randall [00:23:53] And I think the trouble comes in when there is that communication breakdown. So there’s nothing right or wrong. I have done this long enough to know there’s many different ways to get the job done, but if you’re open and have full, transparent understanding, that’s why when we spoke of beforehand, what is the expectation of family support? Is there money coming in? Is there going to be a lot of money coming out? And there’s nothing right or wrong. Just know that it’s going to happen because I think surprises financially is what hurt people the most. It’s, I didn’t expect that, I had this idea for my life. You’re telling me we have to go this direction and that places a strain and it starts financially, but it ends up other things behaviorally that people have to adjust to. 

Linzy [00:24:38] Mhm. Yeah. And what I’m hearing in all of this, and what can be so challenging about money is we have to start conversations about this, right, with the people in our family. And we have to ask questions. And you know, I know that my partner has had a conversation with his mom every few years of just like, how are things going financially? You know, like, what are your plans? You know, like what’s happening in the will, you know, like those kinds of conversations. And for us, part of what we’re also gauging is like, okay, is she good or is it time for us to start supporting in certain ways. Right. But it’s like that can be a difficult conversation for people to bridge, because we’re so unused to talking about money transparently. 

Randall [00:25:14] And I think and I love the fact that they’re introducing financial literacy in grade school so people, kids, can get a head start. But I tell everybody, financial literacy starts at the dinner table. It’s the conversations that you have, the experiences like you have described that you have where how funds flow between different generations. Understanding that and the impact of that is important. So if you are a parent and you want to transfer money down, it’s going to be sometimes hard for you to transfer that money out because somebody has to start it off so the kids can understand what to do when they have kids. So understand it’s going to be painful at first and people are going to have different behaviors. And I tell folks all the time, start off with a small amount. Let’s say your goal is to pass down $300,000, start with $10,000 so that they can learn, mess up, so they don’t become depressed because they wasted 100,000. And then once they mature, knowing that there’s going to be growing pains, I think that’s important. And it’s also with the spouse who has poor spending habits. Start off small. Go on that journey with them. So hopefully when you’re 60, you guys have a mature, um, kind of outlook on how to manage money. 

Linzy [00:26:25] Mhm. Yeah. And I think that’s so normalizing that skill building takes time. And there’s a book that I read a year or two ago called The Soul of Money. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, but she tells this story in this book that resonated so deeply with me about how her own mother’s relationship with money, and her mom didn’t really have a lot of money in her life, but like, really taught them skills about how to be really mindful about money, spend money in really meaningful ways, and how one of the most valuable things we can pass on to our children, even more valuable than giving them $100,000, is teaching them skills. Because skills they always carry with them, right? And skills can’t be stolen from them. Right. And so it’s just like that skilling up our kids and as you say, like that starts at the dinner table, right? That starts by letting mistakes be made. That starts by like creating space for reflection and transparency of like, hey, you know, like I’m thinking about my own relationship to being a parent, of being able to even say like, yeah, this is a mistake that we made, right? Or like, this is why we do it this way. Right? And this is, uh, why this is important to us, or this is why we put our money these places, like having these transparent conversations, because they’re not skills that we’re born with. It’s not in the water. Right? Like we don’t just learn it on our own and we need to be taught it. But I think, you know, what you’re bringing up is such a great point. Like I hear so often, this narrative, and I think it’s an especially American narrative, I will say as well, from my like, Canadian perspective of being one step on the outside is this dream of being able to pass down a huge amount of wealth to children, and that being this aspiration that so many of us, you know, have is I just want to leave my kids with, like, I don’t want them to have to struggle like I did. You know what? I want them to be secure. And I want to leave my kids as much money as I possibly can. I’m curious about your perspective about, like, that kind of goal and like, how does, yeah, how do you see that play out or how do you think about that in relation to skills? 

Randall [00:28:14] So, you know, a lot of people say let’s start from a step back. So a lot of people say, hey, you know, I want to be wealthy. And they say, Randall, how can I become wealthy? And the hard answer and but the truth and honest answer is be creative enough and something that somebody else values in exchange. So a lot of people don’t start off with that exchange of value. I’m giving value to society. So therefore it comes back to me in the form of income and wealth. Okay. And now that I have accumulated this amount of wealth, how do I pass it on to the next generation? I believe it has to be strategic and it has to begin early, like I said, at the dinner table. So be strategic. Sometimes it’s buying a house in a neighborhood where the neighborhood is affiliated with kids that have the same amount of financial well-being, also, in a neighborhood that goes to a school which is going to provide enrichment for the child. So starting off early and really showing them, hey, this is what the benefit of having money does, also show the other side of the tracks, do volunteer events to say, hey, now these people have to have run out on their luck. This is a potentially things that can happen. So you’re not fostering a situation as far as spoiling them. And then the next thing as far as when they go along, education, you know, help subsidize the education. Now I would like to say that each child is going to be different. So some kids, you can say, hey, I’m going to take care of education, no worries. Whereas there are other kids where you have to say no, you’re going to take out student loans, because I don’t think you’re valuing education in the way that you need to do. So there’s going to be some customization when it comes to transferring wealth and also what you spend for your child. I believe- and I’m about to embark on this thought process – is, you know, they say die with zero, meaning that they’re not going to wait until you pass away to receive a large balloon inheritance. I believe, like I had mentioned, you strategically place things in their life as they go along their lives that make their lives easier. But you’re also, on the other hand, teaching them a lesson similar to volunteering, similar to moving to certain neighborhoods, similar to showing them different experiences. It’s all a lesson of values that you’re passing down to your kids, and it has something to do with money, but it’s actually more about those other things, those other life skills that I think are important. 

Linzy [00:30:31] Um, I think that’s really powerful and like something that I’m really appreciating. This is just thinking and being intentional about educating your kids about money in small ways all the time. Because something that I know, like a lot of folks that I work with in Money Skills For Therapists is they know that they didn’t like what was modeled to them, like it didn’t work right. So they inherited these negative money stories, this baggage, or these confusing stories where one parent seems to have endless money and they’re always like splurging. But the other parent says they have no money. And do they have money? Do they not have money? And kids, they absorb all of that, right? Like they’re sponges. And we carry these stories into adulthood and we apply them to our own life, even if they don’t apply at all. Right. So it’s like as a parent, you have the opportunity to really consciously teach, right, and customize and think about where your child’s strengths, where do they need to learn, right and really and really teach them in a thoughtful way about how to manage money. And I think that’s really empowering for folks to think about is like, even if your kid is 15, it’s not too late to start consciously teaching them how to manage money and to give them experiences that are going to let them learn how to manage money and how to think about money. 

Randall [00:31:43] Yeah, and the last thing I’ll leave, just as a thought for parents, is skill discovery is not the school’s responsibility. I believe what your child is good at, nurturing that skill and honing it in, should be part of the parents rearing up a child. Because what I say a lot of times is. Kids are going off to college without any passion. Um, they’re just going because that’s what they’ve been prescribed to do. But if they have been nurturing a skill or talent from grades one through 12, once they go to college or university, they’ll be able to kind of embrace that experience. And I’ve seen folks go through 25, 27 not loving what they do, but making good money. And that results in bad spending habits, which you’ve probably observed in people you work with. 

Linzy [00:32:29] Sure. Yeah. Because having actual passion, doing things that are meaningful, like feeling a sense of efficacy, tends to make us actually better at money because we are enjoying life. We’re not trying to make up for doing work that drains us all the time. And that’s really what, you know, over these past years of doing this work. That’s something that I’ve noticed, Randall, and I wonder if you see that in your folks too, is like, it’s about money and it’s about math, but more so it’s about meaning and values and like creating a life that you actually enjoy. Right. And these two things go hand in hand. But like one is not a replacement for the other. Making a bunch of money doesn’t actually give you meaning or satisfaction or let you live a values-aligned life. Like that’s work that you have to do separately. 

Randall [00:33:13] And I don’t market this to clients specifically. My goal is to give them the financial security and flexibility to do what they really want to do. Some clients that come to me around 35 years old and they don’t really know exactly what they want or how they want to achieve what they want to do, but they don’t take the risk because they’re not in a financial situation to do so. So if if I give them financial flexibility, you’ll naturally see their eyes open up and they take the necessary risk in their lives to be happy.  

Linzy [00:33:42] That’s so true. And I’ve seen the same thing with my Money Skills for Therapists students is once they have money working for them and they have enough of a foundation, suddenly there’s this other cool idea for this thing they’ve always wanted to do that they have the bandwidth to do, because now they have the financial stability to do it, right. And, you know, it makes me think about – my mom was an accountant. She was a cost accountant in a large company for 25 or 30 years. And then she was fired when she was 50. She had a boss that they did not get along, and he managed to get her cut out of the company. And I remember her calling me to give me the news. And I was so nervous for her, and she was like, now I get to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. And she ended up doing completely different work, like she ended up in community development and food security and like building these beautiful partnerships to give people like totally shame-free, equitable access to food, which had nothing to do with what she was doing before. But it was only because she had that financial. First of all, she was forced. Secondly, she had the golden parachute to let her think about what she actually wanted to do with her career. 

Randall [00:34:44] And I also think that, uh, a lot of people don’t realize you can have more than one career. I know therapists and counselors. They go through so many years of schools, so sometimes they feel trapped in that profession. But you can pivot. You can. I think what you’re doing is a great example of somebody who’s taking the skill set and they’re, you know, up rearing and then pivoting into something else. It’s okay to have more than one career in your life. 

Linzy [00:35:10] Absolutely. And I think it’s helpful for their boss to hear that because I know myself, like that therapist identity. You work so hard for it. And often you’ve been a caregiver your whole life, so you’re always kind of a therapist even before you were a therapist. And it can be hard sometimes to imagine who you would be if you weren’t primarily a therapist. But therapists are very talented, smart people. They’ve got a lot of a lot of different careers inside of them. Well, thank you so much, Randall. For folks who want to get further into your world, where can they find you? Follow you? Do you have freebies for them? Tell us about you. 

Randall [00:35:47] Sure. So the best way to get my contact and really connect with this on my website is going to be www.RSADEASIL.com. So that’s www.RSADEASIL.com. I’m on all social media platforms or most of them Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. Just follow my content. I try to post on a regular basis. You can see how I’m thinking. I also host a YouTube channel called Building Wealth and Mental Health. So this is where I actually interview successful practitioners and see what they’re doing and how they’re doing it, because I think there is a slight veil in between mental health professionals or what’s going on, how I can make money. And my goal is to kind of remove that veil so they can really do what they want to. 

Linzy [00:36:27] Yeah. And you had me on your series. That’s how we met. So yeah, check out that series from Randall, and we’ll put all of your links in the show notes so folks can easily get over and follow you. Thank you so much, Randall. This has been a really interesting conversation. Thanks for being on the podcast today. 

Randall [00:36:41] Thank you for having me. 

Linzy [00:36:56] I really appreciated the thoughts that Randall brought forward in this conversation about the importance of communication. You know, with your partner thinking about, um, your financial values. Do you mean credit cards are paid off on time? What do you want your life to look like? But also that communication with kids and parents. I think we are used to maybe starting to think about how are we going to model money to our kids. What do we want our kids to learn? But as you mentioned, like having those transparent conversations also with a generation above, with parents, is also really important because that’s also often part of your financial well-being, right? Like if a parent doesn’t actually have the money to cover their retirement, it’s really important for you to know that, you know, as you’re making your own financial plans and not have that be a surprise. And it gives you an opportunity to communicate openly with that parent about expectations and what’s possible and what they can take care of, and what you can do within a boundaried healthy relationship. On a call in Money Skills for Therapists this week I was talking with some students about therapists and money, and about how therapists having money, I think is good for the world, because we tend to be the people who do think about the well-being of our parents and our siblings and obviously our children. And when therapists and health practitioners and helpers and healers, when we have money, we tend to think about how that money can improve not just our life, but the lives around us. And I think we tend to use money that way, before we start to spend on luxury items and things that other types of people might spend on very quickly. And it’s really powerful when therapists have money, because we do tend to be thoughtful, that we can use that money to take care of our ecosystem, whatever that looks like for you. Right. But part of that is really being clear of what is happening with money in different parts of your ecosystem, having those conversations about money with your family and also being clear on your own financial needs and your own boundaries so that you can give help to, you know, the next generation down or the next generation up without affecting your own financial well-being and putting your own financial stability in peril. Right. So having that clarity about your own needs as well in that mix, lots to think about in terms of family and money. If you want to follow me, you can find me on Instagram @moneynutsandbolts, and we’ll be back next week with our second episode in season eight. Thanks for listening today.