Meet Maegan Megginson

Maegan [00:00:03] But any time you are operating a business that isn’t designed to take care of you as the business owner, first and foremost, I think you are just asking to experience overwhelm and burnout because you’re working so hard to care for other people all the time. You aren’t really thinking about what it is that you, as the entrepreneur, need to thrive. 

Linzy [00:00:31] Welcome to the Money Skills For Therapists podcast, where we answer this question. How can therapists and health practitioners go from money, shame and confusion to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of the course Money Skills For Therapists. Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. So today’s guest is another one of my business besties. This is actually my third and final business bestie coming on the show, Maegan Megginson. Maegan is so many things, she is a business coach, she is the owner of a very large and successful group practice in Portland, Oregon. She’s a licensed psychotherapist, and overall, she is on a mission to help business owners create unique burnout proof businesses that honor their needs and also bankrolls their lifestyle. Maegan is an ambitious introvert and a highly sensitive person, which I very much relate to. We have a great many things in common, which means that Maegan is very familiar with the struggle that I think so many of us therapist and healer types have. When your need for naps and rest, conflicts with your desire to create a big, profitable business or take up space in the world. Meghan is absolutely proof that that is possible, and she’s all about striking this beautiful balance and teaching the rest of us how to do it and that is exactly what we dig into today. Our conversation hits so many points. It was actually hard for me to think about how to summarize it for you all today. We talk about burnout, overwhelm, martyrdom, patriarchy, the glorification of busyness and being tired, which she describes as our hard work addiction. And we also spend a lot of time digging into this arbitrary more. This feeling that you always have to be earning more and more, or in your life, you need more and more and really slowing down and questioning that and getting in touch with, what is actually enough for you? What do you really want? Not just in terms of numbers and money, but what do you want your life and your business to look at? We talk about the roots of why therapist and health practitioner and healing businesses so often don’t serve us, how we’re actually trained to not take care of ourselves. Oh gosh, there’s so much in this conversation, so enjoy my conversation with Maegan Megginson. So, Maegan, welcome, thanks for being here today. 

Maegan [00:03:17] Thanks for having me, Linzy, excited to have this conversation with you. 

Linzy [00:03:21] I’m always excited to talk to you. So, a topic that is your jam and something that I’m also really invested in, is where I wanted to start with you today, and that is about burnout and overwhelm. This is something that we have in common, is our own vulnerability to burnout and overwhelm and our interest in that not being the norm. And yet, it is the norm for so many business owners to struggle with overwhelm and burnout. Why do you think that is? 

Maegan [00:03:52] I think that as healers, therapists or fill in the blank like any profession where your job is taking care of someone else in some capacity, I think that we are taught in our baby, the baby years of our profession, that it’s our job to take care of everyone. Right. It’s our job to be of service. And when we go into building our own businesses with this mindset, we end up building a business that serves all of our clients first, and maybe it serves us as the business owner on the back end if we’re lucky. But anytime you are operating a business that isn’t designed to take care of you as the business owner, first and foremost, I think you are just asking to experience overwhelm and burnout because you’re working so hard to care for other people all the time and you aren’t really thinking about what it is that you, as the entrepreneur, need to thrive. Right? 

Linzy [00:04:51] Yeah. Like it’s like in the design, the business is not designed for you. It’s designed to serve. 

Maegan [00:04:56] That’s right. It’s designed for everyone else, except you. And you are just a little cog in the machine that has to give all your blood, sweat and tears to keeping it going in service of everyone else. So it’s like, where the starting line for most healers in their businesses is really terrible and just ripe for exhaustion. 

Linzy [00:05:20] 100 percent. And I would actually even say that I think that the starting line is even further back than that, in that I think our professions attract people who are more prone to self-sacrifice and caregiving and maybe martyrdom even, right. Like who gets drawn into these healing professions? Like we tend to be people who are already healers, when we were like three years old. 

Maegan [00:05:43] Right, we kind of came out of the womb over functioners. 

Linzy [00:05:48] True story. Right. So we come into this profession because we are drawn to do this thing that we already naturally do, which is like help and heal others and, you know, moves ourselves back into interactions so somebody else can move forward and be supported. And then we go through a school system that’s just reinforcing that. 

Maegan [00:06:06] Absolutely. And I think a majority of healers are also identify as women, and we’re raised in culture as girls. And I think that’s a whole other layer of conditioning that teaches us to be servants to others and to put everyone else before ourselves. 

Linzy [00:06:27] I’m curious if you have any additional thoughts about the licensing process as well, that like therapists go through, where often there doing unpaid hours. Certainly something that I’ve noticed is like, for people who go through that process, which is not how all people get to be mental health therapists, but for certain designations, that is how it works. You’re also just taught that what you’re doing isn’t really actually worth being paid for, like it’s not transactional in that training. 

Maegan [00:06:55] Yeah. You know, I’ve never thought about it through that lens, but I completely agree, and I have thought a lot about how the licensure process is designed to protect the client and not the provider. So everything about your ethical code, everything about the different boxes that you have to check in order to get and maintain a professional license are all about serving other people. You know, we don’t have to take an exam about how to take care of ourselves as providers or how to avoid compassion fatigue or burnout. We don’t have to, you know, take an exam that says we know and are qualified to run a private practice and to be business owners. Everything we do is in service of the client. And at the end of the day, I think that it’s a real detriment to who we are as entrepreneurs and as business owners. 

Linzy [00:07:51] Yeah, because then we end up in business. 

Maegan [00:07:52] Exactly. Yeah. And I just don’t believe – well, here’s what I believe. I believe that the patriarchy, if we can talk about the patriarchy here. Yeah, I figured. The patriarchy instills deep in our bones at a very young age, right, that it is our job to care for everyone else and not for ourselves. And it’s our job to work very hard, to give give give. And if you go into your role as a CEO and a business builder with that mindset, you are going to build a business that does that. You’re going to build a business that serves everyone else first and yourself last. And I think that is really the mindset shift that we collectively, as healers have to transform, right? We have to really give ourselves permission to think about our businesses as these machines that serve us, that give us the life that we want and the financial abundance that we need for our families to be safe and happy and well cared for. And second to that, I’m going to think about, how do I create experiences for my clients that go above and beyond? And the value in the care that they deliver to them. But that only comes after I take good care of myself first. If you don’t do that, you will be overwhelmed and you will burn out. 

Linzy [00:09:08] 100 percent. Yeah, I mean, it’s the classic like, you can’t pour from an empty cup. And yet, I do think that culturally it has become the norm that we are empty cups. We’re just a bunch of empty cups.

Maegan [00:09:18] Yeah, absolutely. 

Linzy [00:09:20] Telling other cups to also stay empty.

Maegan [00:09:22] Well, and there’s some weird like, there can be this – it’s like a badge of honor to be an empty cup, you know, like, Oh, look how hard I work, look how much I give, look how much good I do, and I’m so tired. Look, I’m so busy. You know, it’s like busyness is a badge of honor – I think just really feeds into all of those internalized belief systems. 

Linzy [00:09:41] Right. What do you think are some of the main causes of business owner burnout? And how do those things relate to money? This is our money podcast, so let’s dig into the finance side of this. 

Maegan [00:09:51] Yeah, let’s because I think money is a huge part of this conversation. Let’s be honest, ninety nine point nine percent of us don’t create businesses because we’re rich. Like, we’re not. You know what I mean? There are certainly people who are – who start businesses that are completely charitable in nature or, you know, they don’t need the money. But for everyone listening to this podcast, I have a feeling you started your private practice or you started your business because you wanted financial freedom and you wanted financial abundance for your families. So I do not think it is selfish at all for us to say, the number one reason I’m running this business is to provide for my family financially. The number two or three or four reason I’m running this business is to make the world a better place, to serve my clients, etc. So I don’t believe you can have a conversation about being well-rested, about burnout prevention, without talking about money. OK, then let me actually answer your question. So I think that there are two main causes of business owner burnout. The first I’m going to call, hard work addiction. This is a leftover vestige from the patriarchy that we were talking about a minute ago, right? This belief that the harder I work, the more value I have as a human being. The more productive I am, the more value I have as a human being. And obviously, overworking, having no boundaries, will lead you down the path to burnout. The second reason that I think comes more from our capitalistic society is what I call the arbitrary more, right, that we, as business owners kind of get sucked into this culture that believes we should always be striving for more. You know, first, it’s all about five figure months. And then once you hit five figure months, it’s about six figure a year. And then it’s like a multiple six figure a year. And then it’s about the seven figure year. And then it’s about scaling to eight figures, and it’s always about like more and more and more. And it’s always completely arbitrary, right? Those messages and those beliefs are not rooted in what you, Linzy, actually need in your bank account every year to live a full and happy life. And I think any time we get sucked into a culture and a belief system that is completely arbitrary, we are just inviting ourselves to live a life of overwhelm and burnout because we’re working out of alignment with what we actually need. 

Linzy [00:12:28] Yeah. I don’t think usually – we don’t even know what we actually need, right? Like this is kind of like my zone is like getting clear on like, what do you actually need? Like, what are your actual goals, what actually makes a difference for you? And like, is it having like that really nice car on loan? Is that actually what makes your life better or is it like taking off four weeks in the summer? Right. But a lot of people and certainly because we’re in this cycle that you talk about where we’re we’re so busy serving other people and we’re working so hard and we’re so tired. That’s a really hard place to stop and zoom out from and think about like, what do I actually need? Like, how do I make my life rich and enjoyable now? Or how much, like would actually just kind of unlock this level for me that would be enough? Because I think part of this, too, is enough. The counter of more is enough and like, it’s not like the settling enough. It’s not necessarily like you and I are certainly not people who are prone to like staying small and playing it safe in life. But it’s fulfillment. Like, when are you actually fulfilled? 

Maegan [00:13:32] Well, and I think you’re getting at something really important, which is this isn’t a static number. It’s not like when I sit down with my financial planner and look at my dream cash flow. And you know, how much money do I need to be bringing in to reach all of my goals right now? I guarantee you those are not going to be the same financial goals I have five years from now. Like, you’re allowed to evolve, you are allowed to reach a point of enough and to rest into the plateau of, I’ve arrived, I’ve made it, this feels really great. And then if there’s an ambitious part of you that starts knocking on that little door inside and is like, Hey, I think I’m ready for a little bit more now, can we have it? If you come back to those questions of like, do I have the energetic capacity? Do I have the time? Do I have the motivation? If all of those variables are pointing towards, give yourself permission to level up, then do it. You’re not going to burn out if you’re coming from this place of deep knowing about why you’re doing what you’re doing. But probably like right now, at this moment in time, I think if most people got really clear on how much money they actually need to be happy with the lifestyle that they are living today, you’re probably going to discover that you’re not that far away from reaching your financial goals in the current business that you have. 

Linzy [00:15:02] Yeah, and sometimes it’s only small tweaks that will make the difference that will get you there. 

Maegan [00:15:06] Exactly. And I think for myself, I know this is something you and I have talked about, Linzy. I have a feeling I will never not be ambitious. Maybe when I turn like eighty five, I’ll be like, cool, I think I’m done. But between now and then, I think I’m going to really continue to enjoy building and creating. But I like to think of my trajectory as a staircase, right? Like, I’m going to be in a season of growth and then I just want to plateau for a bit and rest and relax and enjoy what I’ve created for myself and for my family. And then again, when that ambition comes knocking on the door, I’ll level up again and then I’ll plateau and rest a bit. And those resting points for me are always rooted in understanding my numbers, my personal finances. You have to understand your personal finances to know what it is you actually need, and then you have to understand your business finances to know how you can get there and when you have arrived, so that you can stop and rest. 

Linzy [00:16:04] Absolutely. Because I think the more – that drive for more that we’re talking about, it really does rob you of the abundance that you’ve already built. And of like that rest and happiness, because more is, it is an incessant drive, right? And so you might actually be at a place where you can be taking time off, where you can be having like your favorite food every Friday night with your family, right? Or where you can work half days on Wednesdays and go do that pottery class. But when we’re always focused on more, there’s this idea that happiness is over the hill. You know, like if I just get there, it’s always just on the horizon line satisfaction, right? And it’s an illusion, right? And I think about this a lot with money and especially with the fire philosophy, which people listening might, may or may not be familiar with, which is like financial independence, retire early. It’s this kind of community and there’s like lots of great podcasts, and they’re a great community to dip into because they know a lot about money because the whole goal is to be able to stop working. And it’s all about like, putting away as much money as you possibly can so that you can, like, stop working and start enjoying life. But I just have this really strong suspicion and this lived experience myself that when you prolong happiness and you are just kind of grinding now and trying to get through, you’re not going to know how to be happy when you get there. 

Maegan [00:17:22] I completely agree with you. I think, like so many things about that philosophy, make me kind of roll my eyes a little bit. I mean, I respect it. I respect people who make that choice. But I agree with what you said. I don’t like living my life in an if then scenario, right? If I get – if I make this much money, if I achieve this goal, then I’ll be happy. I never want to live that way. The other thing that makes me really sad about that scenario is that those people obviously don’t love the work that they do. And I think that most of us who go into the business building space, do it because we love our work and we love the idea of expanding our impact in the world. And I think I can never see myself fitting in to that fire community, because I don’t want to be done working like, I really enjoy this, this is really fun for me. I think that’s where I’m coming from. You know, a lot of the clients that I work with come in, and the first thing they say to me is, “I absolutely love my work, but I cannot do it this way anymore.” And I think that’s what burnout sounds like for a lot of therapists. It’s not that I’ve stopped loving my mission and the work that I’m doing in the world, I just can’t do it like this anymore. And then if we can really dial in to one of the variables that I like to look at, which are your numbers and see how much do you actually need, how close or how far away are you from getting to that point? It’s like instant relief for business owners because they can see a light at the end of the tunnel and they know where they need to, like, put their foot on the gas. But they also know where they can slam on the brake and start really stepping away to rest and recover. 

Linzy [00:19:10] Yeah, and it actually gives you the clarity to kind of bring joy back into your work. 

Maegan [00:19:14] Yeah, absolutely. 

Linzy [00:19:15] And this is a philosophy that we absolutely share. I had a student write a comment the other day of like, I’m starting to understand that this course is about how like less is more and like actually not being so busy right now is actually a gift and it helps me be a better therapist. And I was like, yes. In the course I’m teaching about, you know, like money and developing confidence and skills and clarity. But like, that is ultimately what I think a lot of people discover when you step back is like, Oh, actually, when I see this many clients a week, I feel so much better about the work that I do. I come home and I’m actually present for my family. I actually have some bandwidth to like, do hobbies. And I actually have enough money, like I’m actually able to cover everything and like save for goals. But when we have that like again, that, you know, more more and more driving us, we don’t even stop to look around and realize what we have. 

Maegan [00:20:09] You know, I would say that I turn away a solid 50 percent of the business owners who call me and who are interested in working with me. Because when I actually get on the phone with them and we’re talking about their overwhelm or their burnout, and I start asking them, like, do you have a big vision for the future that is different than what you have right now? Sometimes they’re like, Yes, I do, and those are my dream clients. But the other half of folks are like, No, I don’t like, I used to be really happy with this business model. You know, I used to like that picture that you just painted Linzy, like being in private practice, having a small caseload, being really present for my family, like, that used to work really well for me. And then they got sucked into the more more more funnel and started to believe that what they had wasn’t enough, that they needed to want something more or want something bigger. And you don’t, right. You have to know, you have to trust your own intuition when you ask yourself, like, how much business do I want? If all you want is a private practice where you see 15 clients a week and make one hundred and fifty grand a year, and that like provides so much abundance for your family and you only have to work two and a half days a week, do that. Congratulations, like that is incredible that you know that, that that’s achievable for you. I think it’s just so important to get – check, like you don’t need to want more for your business, you don’t need to be like Linzy and I. Like our ambition, you know, like, I think our lives would be easier, Linzy, if we weren’t quite so ambitious. 

Linzy [00:21:43] That is true. 

Maegan [00:21:43] You know, we things would be a lot simpler. We’ve chosen this path, we’ve chosen it very intentionally. But I just want everyone listening to know that you get to ask yourself how big of a business do I actually want right now at this moment in my life? And then draw like, a permanent marker circle around that vision and then go to Linzy and say, Can you help me look at my finances to figure out how to make this vision that I’ve just circled an abundant reality for myself? 

Linzy [00:22:12] Yeah. And another thing that that makes you think I’ve got to hear a lot and something I’ve done a few times is talking people out of going into group practice. 

Maegan [00:22:20] My favorite thing to do. 

Linzy [00:22:21] I know, right? 

Maegan [00:22:24] And I own a group practice. 

Linzy [00:22:25] Yes, because I think that it becomes this, like natural next step that even we’re externally pressured. I remember when I was like, my practice was full and I would mention to, you know, like my neighbor like, Oh yeah, my practice is actually like, really full, I’m turning people away. They’re like, Oh, you should hire somebody. It’s just this natural thing. Like in the culture, even people who aren’t therapists are like, you need to get somebody under you. But often, not often, but in cases where I have encouraged people to maybe not go that route, you have to think about like, what does that actually mean? Like, is like a job you actually want? Do you want to be a manager? Do you want to be the go-to for clinicians? Do you want to be like an administrator overseeing multiple people? And often it’s not. 

Maegan [00:23:06] I think most of the time, it’s not. 

Linzy [00:23:08] Yeah, that’s a very specific role that very specific people are going to thrive in. 

Maegan [00:23:13] I think so and, you know, building on that, Linzy, what I hear people say to me all the time is if I’m sitting with a therapist, I have this full – to bursting private practice and they know they want something else, like they want to move in to what comes next. And they grab the group practice fruit because it’s the lowest hanging on the tree. But then I start asking them like, Hey, what is your big vision for yourself? You know, like when you’re laying in bed, staring at the ceiling at four o’clock in the morning, what are you daydreaming about? And often, it’s like becoming the next Brené Brown, really? You know, it’s personal brand. I want to write a book, I want to do a TEDTalk, I want to lead workshops. It isn’t group practice, and I just have made eye contact with so many people and said, Please, for the love of God, if what you want is to be the next Brené Brown, please, please stop. Stop trying to grow group practice because it’s not the model that you want. People who are in love with their group practices, they they’re just like, I am so thankful for them because they’re doing tremendous work in the world and, do that. If that lights you up, do it. But if it doesn’t light you up, don’t do it because it’s just going to hold you back from moving in the direction that really does light you up. And I think like, that’s where your greatest contribution to the world lies, is in whichever direction lights you up the most. So don’t go group practice just because somebody told you it’s an easy way to make more money because that person was lying. 

Linzy [00:24:42] It is not easy. 

Maegan [00:24:43] It is not easy. And honestly, it’s like the group practice model of, if you are in business growth because you really want to multiply your income exponentially, the group practice model just isn’t the right model for that. 

Linzy [00:24:57] No, no, it’s certainly not. 

Maegan [00:24:59] So all it all comes back to listening to thyself. Right? Like tuning into your own intuition. And I think so for me it’s, that’s the combination. It’s a combination of intuition and data. Intuitively, you have to know deep in your soul, like what lights you up and how do you head in that direction? But you can’t go on intuition alone. If you go on intuition alone, you’ll make a lot of mistakes. You’ll get overwhelmed. But if you go on intuition and data and the data being your numbers, your personal finances, your business finances, that in my experience, is the magical combination that leads to you not burning out. 

Linzy [00:25:38] Yes. And that was my next question for you, is how do we burn up proof our businesses? 

Maegan [00:25:46] Well, yeah, I think we just kind of set it. 

Linzy [00:25:49] We did it. 

Maegan [00:25:50] We beat ourselves to the punch, but let’s say it one more time to simply, how do we burn out of our businesses? I think that there are many different things that we need to do to burn our proof our businesses. But I do believe one of the core pieces is learning how to understand our personal finances and hiring someone to guide you along the way. So for me, that’s a certified financial planner. And the other side of this coin is learning to understand your business finances. And I think that what most people do, especially if you’re growing a larger business, is learn how to understand your business finances yourself, by doing something like your course, Linzy, and then hiring out all of those roles, when you get to the point that it’s, you know, being your own bookkeeper, being – well you can’t be your own accountant, but you know, being your own like financial team is not a good use of your time. So it’s that balance for me, I need to be able to understand it myself. When my accountant sends over my monthly profit loss statement, I need to be able to analyze that. I need to know what it means. Right. When my financial adviser gives me a suggestion about our retirement savings plan, like I need to know what the acronyms mean. I need to have a basic understanding of why I’m putting money where I’m putting it. But after I have that basic understanding, I’m just going to hire the best people to help me manage my money in the best ways. And I find that it is just a huge part of what helps me as a multi passionate entrepreneur with two big, successful businesses. Stay grounded and avoid burning out. 

Linzy [00:27:31] Totally. And I love what you mentioned earlier, too, about how it’s a blend of those numbers and the intuition. Because I think sometimes in the business world – and this is not something that therapist and health practitioners tend to be too vulnerable towards, but definitely we can be vulnerable to like, just looking at numbers and being like, those in the numbers, this is what I have to shoot for. You know, like, do or die, I’m going to like, do whatever it takes to get these numbers without necessarily doing what you’re talking about, which is like listening to your gut. Is this actually the right thing for you to be doing? Are you doing it in the way that’s truest to you, at the right speed? So there’s all these other questions that are more about who we are, that we need to be in touch with, but bringing those together with numbers is what I’m hearing from you. 

Maegan [00:28:15] I think so. I mean, I just feel, I’m just imagining a scale from like seventh grade science class. You know, picture that in your head. And I just don’t think it’s healthy as a business owner to be, to have all of your weight on the intuitive side of the scale. And it’s also not healthy to have all of your weight on the data side of the scale. Any time I can strike this balance in my life, between the emotional and the intellectual, the intuitive and the data driven, I find that that is when I feel the most grounded. And that’s when I have the most well-rounded clarity about how I can build a business that really works for me, how I create a business that allows me to be deeply rested and wildly successful, in a way that serves me and my family. Who gives a shit about what anybody else says I should or shouldn’t be doing? Because it comes back to me knowing exactly what I need for myself. 

Linzy [00:29:15] So Maegan, for people who are listening, if they want to get into your world, we’re going to put the links in the show notes. But what is your social media hangout, where we should go join you? 

Maegan [00:29:27] Well, I have a social media free business. 

Linzy [00:29:30] Oh, yes, you do. I forgot. 

Maegan [00:29:32] I think social media is not a place that I want to spend any more of my time. But you can certainly visit my website and you can hop on my email list. That is where my community hangs out, is in our email community. So my website is maeganmegginson.com and my name is spelled a little funny, so check out the link in the show notes. And I think, are we also giving the link to my workbook? 

Linzy [00:29:59] Yes, we are. 

Maegan [00:30:00] Yes. So you can also download my workbook, which talks about the five biggest business building mistakes I see business owners make, especially therapists, that leave them burn out and broke. And what you can do instead. So if you want to avoid all of these things that I know Linzy and I have both done, on our path to growing bigger businesses. Don’t be like me and Linzy. I should rename the workbook, the “Don’t be like Maegan the Linzy” workbook. 

Linzy [00:30:25] It’s like, be like where we are now. Don’t do the stuff we did in the middle. 

Maegan [00:30:28] Yeah, go ahead and skip over that, you know, two year period, we’re making a lot of you know, silly mistakes. So yes, happy to share that with your community, Linzy, and just am always so grateful to be your friend and to have the opportunity to have these conversations with you. 

Linzy [00:30:47] Thank you so much, Maegan. So great talking to you today. I love this piece that Maegan brought up about people who come to her saying they love the work they do, but they can’t do it like this. And I think that is a trap that we fall into so often when we build businesses that are not designed to support us or nurture us or take care of our needs. We end up kind of killing what we love, right? We take this gift that we have and these talents that we have, and then all of this training that we’ve done to be able to practice professionally in our area and we exhaust ourselves and we burn out and we start not loving the work because we’ve created a container that does not support us. And so that piece that she talks about and that we talked about stepping back, clarifying your numbers, being able to stop and say, this is enough, I’m going to rest here, really lets you bring joy back into your work. And I really love this piece that we dig into, which I think and talk about a lot because I feel like I need to remind myself of it all the time, which is like, happiness is not over the hill. Happiness is here, right? So often I think when we’re trying to design our lives and be intentional about our lives, it’s kind of like what we want is just next to us. And yet we create these circuitous, complicated routes to try to get there that take us off and all these different, exhausting directions when really, especially if what you’re looking for is more presence, more time, more connection. There are things that we can be doing in our life every day to make that possible, and we can actually be building our businesses right now to make it so that we can get off work at two o’clock and have a date with our partner every Wednesday, right or so that we can do that Tuesday morning art class that we’ve been wanting to do. Often these things are so in reach, but we tell ourselves that they’re going to come later. So if you’re listening to this and you’re relating to that, I really encourage you to think about how can you bring more of what you want into your life now, even while you’re still building, even while you’re still working in your business and even if you’re not exactly where you want to be. If you want to hear more from me, you can find me on Instagram @moneynutsandbolts. We’re putting out free money content there all the time, balancing the practical and the emotional. And if you’re enjoying the podcast, please head over to Apple Podcasts if you’re an Apple user to leave us a review. It really helps people to find us and tell your friends about the podcast. Thanks for listening today.