Meet Rachel Dorneanu

Rachel [00:00:03] It’s been such a wonderful experience of having these young, fresh minds that are tickled to be doing this. It’s been really rewarding for them of the gained experience and asking me things, but also getting to get their perspective on marketing and what’s going on in TikTok land and everything else. That’s just way over my head. 

Linzy [00:00:28] Welcome to the Money Skills for Therapists podcast, where we answer this question: how can therapists and health practitioners go from money shame and confusion, to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of the course Money Skills for Therapists. Hello and welcome back to the podcast. Today we have Rachel Dorneanu talking about interns. So bringing interns into your practice. As I mentioned to Rachel, it’s not something that we’ve talked about on this podcast before. It’s not something that we’ve thought about. And the interns that we’re talking about today are not clinical interns, but they are internships from younger people, high schoolers, university, college students who are looking to build their resumes and get experience. And we talk today about how there’s an exchange there that we can make with folks about giving mentorship and guidance and giving young people a taste of private practice and running their own businesses, especially for people who might be interested in going into therapy. You know, so often they get exposure to agency kind of settings. There’s internship opportunities there, but this is a way for young people to get a taste of private practice and to see if that’s the kind of work that they might want to do. We talked today about who should bring on interns in their private practice and who shouldn’t. What kind of person is really set up and in a good position to have interns, and who is definitely not. And also the difference between the interns and virtual assistants. Understanding reasonable expectations, and also what the relationship looks like when you’re bringing on an intern, as opposed to a virtual assistant who is somebody who is running their own business and charging you for the work that they’re doing for you. This is a great conversation for therapists who are thinking about ways to bring more skills into your practice. I recently read a book called Who Not How. That makes the argument that when you have a problem in your business that is not in your zone of genius, not something that you are good at. You should ask yourself who can help you solve this problem? Not how do you solve this problem? And this is very much a who not how approach to things like getting support with social media, website, marketing. If you are looking to bring in some support into your business, and you’re also someone who really enjoys mentorship and having young people in your life, helping people get a behind-the-scenes glimpse into the therapy world, there’s going to be lots here for you in this episode. Here’s my conversation with Rachel Dorneanu. So Rachel, welcome to the podcast. 

Rachel [00:03:15] Thank you for having me. 

Linzy [00:03:16] Yeah, I’m excited to have you here because, well, many reasons. One, we just started chatting and I already like you. Yeah. Two. Talking about interns, which I know is an area that you support therapists with, is something that I know very little about and something we have not talked about on the podcast before. So I’m excited about what I know you’re bringing to us today. 

Rachel [00:03:37] Oh I’m pumped. This is gonna be fun. It’s fun to talk to to the therapists. Just be like, oh, that’s an option? Interns? Yes, yes. 

Linzy [00:03:47] Okay. Okay. So I would love to hear, like, how did you end up taking this path of working with interns? Because what most folks do is they, you know, work on, like, marketing, trying to fill their practice like they’re really focused on, like, getting folks in the door, getting folks in the door. What made you take the step towards bringing on an intern as a way to increase what was happening in your practice? 

Rachel [00:04:09] Oh, gosh. So I’m trying to think, I think it was maybe 2021. So like we’re slowly crawling out of Covid and I was feeling so burned out because I was trying to magically find clients during pandemic world still and market and content plan and do Canva Pro and do all the things. And I was like, you know, I choose to not drown anymore. I can’t do it. And so it was either let me hire somebody and literally pay out the butt, which is an option, or let’s find an intern. And so from there I was like, let me for funsies, let’s see if we can find anybody that’s an undergrad that could be an intern that is even somewhat interested. And then I was overwhelmed with like 30 applications and I was like, oh, okay. So people want to do this unpaid. Great. Let me interview them. And so I ended up having since fall 2021, multiple rounds of interns that have been unpaid but have received – based on their reviews, but also from talking with them – a very helpful opportunity of mentoring for me. So, a therapist in private practice, but also ways to bond with people from around the country because I have interns in different parts of the country. Um, and being able to help them get into grad school, become a therapist, because I help them look at their resumes and CVs and personal statements because I used to work in career services as well. So being able to have that bit, while they helped me is kind of win-win. 

Linzy [00:05:44] Mhm. So there’s this like exchange that’s happening there. 

Rachel [00:05:47] It’s not like just grunt work of them being like low on the totem pole of like all the horrible stuff. They actually get something out of it. 

Linzy [00:05:53] Yes yes yes. And I’m curious. Yeah. So like what is the profile of, you know, these folks who applied for this first position. Like, who are they. And like what’s really in it for them to have this relationship with you?  

Rachel [00:06:05] So some of the people that have applied have been, uh, mainly kind of a social sciences psychology major, that kind of thing. Just people that are interested in being therapists one day anyway. But then I’ve also had, depending on the season, I’ve had a social media intern opportunity. And so I have people from communications backgrounds, marketing, PR. One person was computer science and I was like, fantastic. Yes. I want you to look at my website. Thank you. So that went really well. And so the things that they’re looking for, at least from the psych background, people, because I typically, I’m sure, you know, communications, major marketing, they always need some kind of internship anyway. Um, but psychology, they would like us to – I know, I remember from undergrad, uh, it’d be cool if you have a psychology internship when you graduate, right? But there’s so slim of options. Either you’re working a suicide hotline or you’re at a domestic violence shelter. And that’s about all the options you have, at least in Georgia. And then I’m like, you know, why not let somebody have an opportunity to play with private practice and see what the heck is actually going on, but obviously hippa-compliant. But it’s making sure that they have a way to see that it’s actually doable and an option rather than you have to go to community service or state-funded opportunities. 

Linzy [00:07:23] Mhm. Right. So you’re letting them to step in and like build their resume and get a taste for this, this certain experience, this private practice experience that most of us came to after going through other steps. First, helping these folks who don’t even- you haven’t even entered into like, any kind of licensure or training yet to like, get a taste for like this is another option for practicing. 

Rachel [00:07:46] It’s so fun. And they’re they’re so tickled to have the opportunity to just be like, I talked to a therapist right now for free. Like, keep in mind disclaimer not your therapist. But yeah, let’s talk about the mentoring and the job side and the behind the scenes because no one talks about it. Mhm. 

Linzy [00:08:01] You know it’s funny. It makes me think about when I was thinking about my career path, and thinking about going to school for social work. I did information interviews. Maybe I just did one. But yeah, like how impactful it was for me to sit down with somebody. And I sat down with somebody who was like, I think she was an executive director at an organization, and it wasn’t even an organization that was necessarily values aligned for me, but just that she was working with folks, you know, in the way that I wanted to be working with people in the future and like, get to talk to her about what was great about that, what was hard about it. She talked about how like, she didn’t talk about her work to like, friends or family or at parties, like she really had to kind of keep it close to her chest because it’s so heavy and like things that, yeah, I remember being so hungry for that kind of contact and that kind of insight before I headed down a certain road. And I can imagine that for folks who would be interning with you or want to intern, it’s like they’re getting that times 50. 

Rachel [00:08:54] Yeah, exactly. It’s a whole semester of informational interviews. 

Linzy [00:08:58] Right? Yeah. Yes. So for you, like, as a as a therapist in private practice, what is it like managing these interns, this team of interns that you have had at different times? 

Rachel [00:09:09] Uh, I have so many stories. I’ve had some really, truly wonderful experiences. Some that I feel like you’re not allowed to leave. I have to hire you. Mhm. Like, so I now have someone that was a past intern that is now the blog editor. I have someone that was a past intern is now the intern supervisor. And so- which is just super fun. I had a past intern that became a social media manager for a hot minute. And that was- it’s just been so fun to watch their progress and be like, you’re so wonderful, you’re not allowed to leave. How do I keep you? Like, oh, that’s been fantastic. There’s also been some moments of where maybe there were some ghosting or there was maybe a life happened to them kind of moment. I was like, Look, hey, therapist here, completely understand, please go take care of yourself or family, whatever’s going on, I support you, I’m not going to write some horrible letter about you to somebody because you have life happen and as long as you’re honest and willing to communicate with me, you’re solid in my book. So just make sure that any therapists that are looking to hire interns that keep in mind they’re in their 20s, their early 20s, maybe like 18 year old, depending on what’s going on. I’ve had a high school junior reach out. Baby, baby, super precious, and I was like, I’m so sorry, you’re a minor and you’re in another state and that gets parents involved. And that’s complicated. But it’s been such a wonderful experience of having these young, fresh minds – wow I sound old – young, fresh minds that are tickled to be doing this, it’s been really rewarding for them of the gained experience and asking me things, but also love getting to get their perspective on marketing and what’s going on in TikTok land and everything else. That’s just way over my head. Mhm. And you’re like, hey, actually that’s trending. And here’s a site that helps you do all this for free. I said oh yes, yes we want that thing. 

Linzy [00:11:05] Totally. Yes. I have had this moment many times over the last couple years where I realize like, oh, I middle age like that happened at some point. I think it happened over Covid. For me, it’s like I went into Covid like pretty young and I came out like middle-aged. So there are all sorts of things that, yeah, like, I don’t know anymore. And I notice, you know, my son is now into, um, YouTube influencers. So it’s like, you know, 20 there’s this one guy he watches especially he’s like a 20-year-old man who’s like, of course, really good at Lego because he’s 20 years old. But when he like he’ll he’ll say words that I literally don’t understand and can only understand like in context and like, yeah, there’s a whole other vernacular happening. There’s like whole other like worlds of references that I just don’t even know what they are anymore. 

Rachel [00:11:49] Like, like, What’s Up or Rad or Coolio or any of those words that were like 90s babies. 80s babies. Um, those are done. 

Linzy [00:11:59] Don’t say that. Yes, yes. Yeah. And like I have heard colleagues of mine who end up kind of working with therapists who are younger, like a colleague of mine who is a speech language pathologist and helps people build their practice and has found that she’s getting more folks like in their mid 20s. She has a social media manager in their mid 20s because she can’t keep up with memes. Right. And so like there is this like, yeah, a whole world of culture that yeah is happening. And then the generations below us. Well, gosh, I know because what I’m hearing here to like, as you’re talking to this is like what I get from you is really this like passion for relationships and mentorship. Is that fair. 

Rachel [00:12:39] A Million percent. 

Linzy [00:12:40] To say. Yeah. And that makes me curious. Like as folks are listening, if they’re thinking about it like, oh, I’ve never considered bringing in interns into my own practice. But there’s things like social media or tech or whatever that I could definitely use some support with. Who would you recommend is a natural fit for bringing on interns, and who might not be as happy with bringing an intern into their practice. 

Rachel [00:13:04] That is a great, great question. I’m gonna start positive first. So for someone that was. Would really do well with hiring an intern would be somebody that is somewhat, I mean, somewhat similar to me. That is being really excited about mentoring, that I just really like you, that you are just going after you have an hour, uh, information interview in a sense, with somebody like, yes, here’s what’s happened to me. This is mine. This is what you don’t want to do. This is some things that can help you with your resume after you leave me. If that really just, like, gets you going, that’s what you want to do. You want to hire an intern because they are just going to eat it up. I am so grateful. This is a mutual respect, attitude kind of situation for people that it may not be a good fit. If you are stretched too thin, if you are feeling burnout and you’re going to end up having more of a cynical view about the therapy world, trying to talk to an intern about it, please don’t. Let’s do therapy bits first, work through the burnout first, read the Emily Nagasaki book about burnout. 

Linzy [00:14:17] Yes. 

Rachel [00:14:18] Read that first and then, you know, talk to me and find an intern. But just because we don’t want to burst your bubble, we need so many more therapists in the world. I come from an abundance mindset. We need more therapists. We need different kinds of therapists. 

Linzy [00:14:33] Yes. 

Rachel [00:14:34] And so if you’re going to come at it from a cynical, I just need you to do the grunt work, I just need to do the social media marketing, the blog post, whatever else, just so I can get more SEO. Probably your better bet is to hire somebody that’s a VA that’s going to easily just take the whole shebang. Knows what they’re doing. And there you go. 

Linzy [00:14:53] Right? Yeah. Because there’s an interpersonal exchange here like they’re being paid in relationship by like having that access to you and your brain and your experiences and your mentorship. So what I’m hearing is like if you’re cynical or if you’re done with humans, please don’t do that to somebody. 

Rachel [00:15:10] Please don’t. 

Linzy [00:15:11] Don’t put that on a young person who’s excited about stepping into our field, which I do think is really helpful because like, if I think about my own experiences with coming up and like interning as a social work student, the therapists who were like had that genuine spark. Like that was really exciting, you know, to see and to learn from them. But like the folks who were like burnt out or cynical like that was not, uh, not very inspiring as a young person coming into the field. And I probably didn’t pick up very much. That was very helpful from them. Yeah. So what I’m hearing then is like, if you are like a people person and if you have something to give because you are you are exchanging mentorship for their help. So you have to make sure that you actually have the bandwidth and the desire to give that mentorship. And I think that’s so important because, I mean, it makes me think about the parallel of group practice, right? So many folks like who are therapists, who are in solo practice, once they get to the certain point of busyness, just think like, well, I’ve got more clients than I can handle. I’m just going to hire somebody else. I’m just going to make a group like it’s this low hanging fruit. And I had a call today with one of my Money Skills for Therapists students. I was like, it’s not that I’m trying to talk you out of starting your practice, but if I do talk you out of starting a group practice, I won’t be sorry because you have to have that spark. Like, you have to be someone who loves to manage other people and who’s there for some of the messiness, who’s maybe ready to be ghosted if somebody like, has a mental health crisis come up and like, you need to have that to give, right, like that solidity and that like love for people. And if you don’t have that, you’re going to hate having group practice. And I would also assume if you’re going to have that, you’re not going to be really good at giving somebody an internship experience. 

Rachel [00:16:43] No, no, make sure you’ve you’ve got your whole – I won’t say your head on right, because none of us are really all that, right? But make sure that you’re in a mindset and headspace of this is not only going to just benefit me and my practice, and my brain is going to help this other person. Like you need to have that in goal in mind. Light at the end of the tunnel, that this intern is going to come out so much better from doing this, from hearing my thoughts and my perspective on how things have happened, hearing my story, my journey to becoming a therapist. If that’s not where your brain is, just just wait a little bit. Mhm mhm. 

Linzy [00:17:20] Yeah. So if people are listening and they’re like yeah no that’s me, I’m here, I would be really interested in that. Tell me about hiring interns. Like in the place of hiring a VA. Is that something- can one substitute for the other or do you see those as different things? Tell me about that.  

Rachel [00:17:41] That’s tough. If you find a unicorn that happens to have all of the VA experience that you want and you can somehow magically not pay them. Personally I’m a little concerned that they’re not advocating for themselves to be paid. 

Linzy [00:17:56] Right. 

Rachel [00:17:57] You know of now there’s really like I just I have the skill but I don’t have the, the, the background history, the years experience. Yeah, let’s play with it. But most of the time interns come in. And so keep that in mind when you start having applications come in for an internship. Um, they may not have a whole heck of a lot on their resume. Especially if they’re from a psych background. They probably have like, I made a marketing flier for a club in high school. Yeah. It’s like cool. Congrats. Canva is fantastic. That’s a skill. Please use that. Mhm. But it’s very unlikely that they’re going to have this really beautiful VA background. And for you to play with and interview them at like a VA level. Definitely keep that in mind in terms of hiring a VA though. I mean hopefully if you find somebody that’s really trained and knows their stuff, they’re going to be checking in and asking you questions in the interview. I’m going to have the nope, I don’t have any questions, thanks. 

Linzy [00:18:56] Yes. Big smile. 

Rachel [00:18:57] Like, hey, what’s your brand voice? What are you looking for? Who’s your ideal client? How can I market to them? What kind of CTAs call to action do you want to use? What I look at your feed is all x, y and z. Here’s how I want to write. A VA hopefully is doing that. Interns are like, it looks cool. Thanks for letting me know that that was something you enjoyed looking at, because that means that your demographic, which I actually work with, is enjoying it. Right? But just keeping in mind that that those interviews can be starkly different in terms of. 

Linzy [00:19:34] Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like what I’m hearing is with internship, it’s not that you’re getting free skilled labor, it’s that you’re helping someone build skills and build a resume so they can go on, you know, to work in their field of choice. But yeah, you, you are helping someone fill their resume. 

Rachel [00:19:49] Mhm. Exactly. Have a very different mindset with that of you may be depending on the intern and who you find, but you may be literally hand-holding and going through like entire intern handbook and outline. And you might be building that with this sweet little intern guinea pig. Um, hey, this is how you do Canva. This is how you make a reel. This is how you find captions and hashtags and Google Trends and Google Analytics and all that, all the things. Mhm. But you might be hand-holding for a bit because that’s the orientation and that’s the training that they’re going to need to eventually at the end of the semester make your business fruitful. 

Linzy [00:20:26] Right. 

Rachel [00:20:26] So keep that in mind. If you find a unicorn that already knows all the things. Oh my gosh I love that. Congrats. Send me their twin, right. But it is unlikely.  

Linzy [00:20:38] Yeah absolutely. Yeah. Because what I’m hearing is like, one is not a substitute for the other. Right. Like this is a this is a different thing. So if folks are listening and they’re like oh I could just get stuff my VA does for free. Probably not. No. No different levels of experience, different levels of skill. But what I’m hearing is an offering internship is awesome. If you really enjoy mentorship and if you want to have like a positive impact on somebody who might want to come into our field or who’s building great experience, it can be a really nice way for you to mentor someone and get some more support in your practice. 

Rachel [00:21:09] Absolutely. 

Linzy [00:21:10] So, Rachel, this is what you help folks do. So can you tell us more about what you do and where people can find you? 

Rachel [00:21:18] Yeah. So website, all the socials, all the things is where you can find me. And basically how you hear me talking right now is how I interact with people. I don’t have this stuffy, holier-than-thou bit and that, no, that’s not me, but I really am going to make sure that I go above and beyond for you. I want to make sure that whatever it is that you’re trying to find, that we are going to personalize the crap out of it, that we’re going to find a way to, if you want this unicorn intern, let’s figure out how to find them. Let’s figure out what skills are, what’s the job description, what’s the place that you want to post the intern posting? How do you want to do the application? Like I walk you through every single painful process that there’s no handbook on that. How do you manage? There’s no cute little handbook yet. I’m working on it. Um, but. Or like an online course coming soon, but we’re not- school doesn’t teach us that. Every single episode with you is like it is not a thing. Business is not covered. Money is not covered. It’s go to community service board and for the rest of your life. So just keep that in mind that there’s an entire process to it. It takes a minute and also to be kind to yourself, because you may find a really lovely person, does a lovely human, but an intern? Um, not so much. So be kind to yourself. That only especially of the perfectionist therapist out there. Hello. Don’t have this expectation of I’m going to find this one perfect person, and every intern after that is going to be fantastic. You may have a great first couple of interns, and the next ones are getting a little wonky. That doesn’t mean you failed. That doesn’t mean that you have done something wrong or that that person was horrible. Therefore, all interns are horrible. That all or nothing thinking that we tend to do. Yeah. Nope. Just find the next round. Feel like, you know what a lovely time, but not going forward. Hopefully you can tell just I want to make sure that all the perfectionist people-pleasing people that y’all are taking care of, because I know you want to help people. I know you want to expand your practice in some way, shape or form, whether through marketing, expanding the group practice, whatever it might be. Just please be gentle with yourself because it is exhausting sometimes. Coming up with an entire intern handbook, coming up with training videos for future interns, coming up with all the agreements, all the legal bits that you got to cover. That takes time. Please don’t think you’re throwing it together in one week and you’re going to find somebody. 

Linzy [00:23:47] Mhm mhm. 

Rachel [00:23:49] And so that’s why you have me because I did all the stuff for you. 

Linzy [00:23:54] And where can people find you. 

Rachel [00:23:56] Yeah. So my website, my socials, sagecounselingtherapyandwellness.com. It is the longest domain humanly possible. So sorry one day we’ll find another domain name that’s not as long. And then sage counseling wellness is on all the socials. All the things. Please connect with me. I love to have more connections. Obviously I like to interact with people. I could talk all day, but otherwise it is just something that really makes my heart happy. And so if anything, this is more of like beta pricing right now and where the calls are for mentor calls and we can kind of schedule however many you need. At some point it will become an online course and then I’ll, you know, bump up the price and make it worthwhile. But for now, I just want people to like, help people and get a couple more reviews and so if you want the beta pricing, now would be the time to do it 

Linzy [00:24:45]  Getting in on the beta is always a good idea. Thank you so much, Rachel, for joining us today. And I’m sure there’s been some seeds planted now of folks listening, thinking about things that they could maybe bring on an intern, hopefully some beautiful intern relationships come out of this podcast today. 

Rachel [00:25:01] I hope so. Well, thanks for having me. 

Linzy [00:25:17] A really important part of what Rachel mentioned today, that I think you should really be emphasized is in these kinds of internship relationships, there has to be an exchange. I think that there is the the negative association with internships, you know, like people I don’t know, interning at some sort of entertainment company. And they just have to get people coffees all day and they don’t actually get to be part of anything. And they’re really doing the stuff that nobody else wants to do and get no respect. That is not what we’re talking about here. That is not ethical. I don’t think that really aligns with what we’re trying to do for the world as therapists. She’s really talking about bringing somebody into your practice when you have the bandwidth to mentor and support somebody and help them build skills, like you’re going to be actively training them and supporting them a lot, helping them really consciously building certain skills and having certain experiences so they can put them on their resume so that they’re in a position to apply for the programs that they want to apply to, or step into paid work in an area where they don’t have previous experience. So this is really about an exchange, and I think that’s a really important element of this. And I can see how valuable that exchange could be for a young person. As I mentioned in our conversation. Like, I remember how much I appreciated when people who were ahead of me down the path that I was considering going on, when they would talk honestly with me and tell me all the great things and all the hard things about the work, that helped me make an informed decision of what path I wanted to take. And this is a chance for, you know, folks listening for us to do the same kind of thing for young people who are considering stepping into therapy or into the kind of health work that we do. So if you’re curious about Rachel, you can go to Sage Counseling Therapy and Wellness.com and get in on that. Those beta offers that she has as she’s building out these resources for therapists. If you want to hear more from me, you can follow me on Instagram at @MoneyNutsandBolts. And if you’re looking for more resources to dig into your relationship with money and getting it working for you in your private practice, I want to tell you about a guide that I have called Six Simple Steps to six Weeks Vacation. This guide is for therapists who find themselves overworking in their practice and going long stretches without taking any time off. For therapists who might notice jealousy creeping in when you hear your clients talk about their amazing vacations, when you feel like you can’t even afford to take any time off, let alone go away somewhere. And it’s for therapists who want to actually build into their schedule, replenishment so you can come back to your work feeling refreshed and excited to dive back into that work with your clients. This free guide walks you through the process of the mindset and steps to set aside as much money as you want to for your paid time off next year. So that’s for vacations. It’s also for holidays. It’s for sick time. The guide teaches you a system to put money aside and includes, of course, because it’s for me, a pretty calculator for you to play with. That will tell you exactly how much you need to save to cover your paid time off, but also to cover your vacation goals if you’re looking to travel. The guide also shows you how to put aside money for that so you can find that guide at moneynutsandbolts.com/sixweeksvacationguide and we’ll put the link to the show notes as well. Thanks for listening today.