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Getting Out of the Weeds to Make More Money in Your Private Practice Coaching Session

“It feels lighter. I have more choices; I have more freedom. I think that’s the thing about wealth is that it gives me freedom and flexibility. I don’t care about buying things. I just want the flexibility to work or not work, or to go somewhere, or to outsource something.

~Peter H. Addy

Meet Peter H. Addy

As an educator and trainer, Peter helps curious and compassionate healthcare professionals who wish to become psychedelic-informed or psychedelic-affirming. As a therapist, he helps psychedelic-curious adults with chronic health issues who want to find purpose and courage through transformation. Peter is also faculty at an Oregon-approved psilocybin facilitator training program, and used to be an informatics and psychiatry research scientist at Yale School of Medicine, where he studied atypical psychedelics and cannabis.

Connect with Peter at https://www.psychedelicaffirmingeducation.com/

In This Episode…

How can looking at the big picture and thinking expansively lead to more financial freedom? In this coaching session, Linzy and Peter H. Addy dig into Peter’s numbers and how to make his finances work by balancing his therapy work and his education work.

As Peter and Linzy explore the numbers, the conversation shifts to looking at the bigger picture and exploring what could be possible if Peter considers what he can do if he expands the possibilities with his education business. Linzy talks about the temptation to stay small and safe and how making the conscious decision to step out of that space can bring about revolutionary changes to both finances and quality of life.  

Want to work with Linzy?

Check out the Sustainable Practice Roadmap program that my friend and highly sensitive therapist/consultant, April Snow, has created to help overwhelmed highly sensitive therapists feel less overwhelmed and create an outside-the-box practice. 

The Sustainable Practice Roadmap includes:

6 months of weekly discussion groups + co-working sessions

Three 1:1 consultations (50 minutes each)

Monthly workshops from guest experts (including me)

12-module self-paced course with systems, tools, and templates

150+ resource and reflection pages in a printed (and digital) workbook

Check out  the Sustainable Practice Roadmap here (spots are limited) before September 22, 2023.

Episode Transcript

Peter [00:00:04] It feels lighter. I have more choices. I have more freedom. I think that’s really the thing about wealth is that it gives me freedom and flexibility. Like, I don’t care about buying things. I just want the flexibility to like work or not work or go somewhere or outsource something. 


Linzy [00:00:28] Welcome to the Money Skills for Therapist podcast, where we answer this question How can therapists and health practitioners go from money shame and confusion, to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of the course Money Skills for Therapists. So today’s podcast is a coaching episode with Peter H. Addy. Peter is a grad of Money Skills For Therapists. He finished up the program about 18 months ago. We were talking about on the interview and Peter is an educator and a trainer who helps compassionate healthcare professionals who want to become psychedelic-informed or psychedelic affirming. He’s also a therapist who helps psychedelic curious adults with chronic health issues who want to find purpose and courage through transformation. And he’s also a faculty at an Oregon-approved psilocybin facilitator training program. And he used to be a research scientist at Yale. So today, Peter and I get into the complexities of having two separate businesses. He’s got that educator business and also his therapy business, two separate businesses that are both growing and trying to do profit first, kind of with both of them. And you’ll hear in our conversation, we kind of start with the numbers, trying to figure out the numbers and the profit first system. But our conversation switches gear fairly quickly towards bigger picture. You’ll hear that kind of shift in the conversation. If you find yourself kind of struggling with numbers that are not the numbers you want to see, or the complexity of kind of having like two businesses and how do you make things work, this episode will be great for you to help you take perspective on what are the things that really matter and where should we be putting our energy and our focus as we’re growing businesses? And what are the things that can be kind of set aside to dig into later once our businesses are where we want them to be? Here is my coaching session with Peter H. Addy. So Peter, welcome to the podcast. 


Peter [00:02:49] Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah. 


Linzy [00:02:51] So getting into what we want to talk about today, Peter, you were a student in Money Skills For Therapists a couple years ago, is that correct? Am I timing that correctly? 


Peter [00:03:00] Yeah, I started two years ago. 


Linzy [00:03:03] Yes. 


Peter [00:03:03] So what was that? It’s a six-month thing. 


Linzy [00:03:06] Yeah. So it’s been like about 18 months since we would have worked together. So coming into our podcast recording today, our coaching session, what would be most helpful for us to focus on today? 


Peter [00:03:17] Yeah, well, I recently started a second business, so I have my therapy business and then I do some training. The next level therapist course, Maegan Megginson, and she really laid out kind of the in a detailed, easy-to-understand way, when it’s appropriate to have two businesses or not and like how to do that in an ethical way. And I started realizing I’ve been running two businesses for years, but they were just all under one umbrella. I do therapy, I do supervision, and I also do like professional education for continuing education and training for health care professionals. So I’ve spun that out into a second business. It’s its own legal entity and bank accounts and website and email address. So they’re like totally separate things now. And that’s great. In a lot of ways, it helps me just be clear about my audience. I realized, you know, I’ve been collecting email addresses for a mailing list for years, but I’ve sent out like two emails ever because like, who am I writing this to? Am I writing this to potential clients or am I writing this to professional colleagues? 


Linzy [00:04:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 


Peter [00:04:27] Same with blogs or social media or anything. Like I don’t know who I’m writing for, but now, now I have two different audiences. And so there’s just it’s really great to be clear about that and to know, like depending on what email address the message has coming to me, it still goes to the same box on the same device. But like it’s it automatically filters like, what does this person want to talk to me about? 


Linzy [00:04:49] Yes, you you’ve segmented your audience now for those two different businesses. 


Peter [00:04:54] Exactly. So it’s really great for that. But now I have twice as many bank accounts too. I use profit first. So that’s a lot of bank accounts. 


Linzy [00:05:03] Yes. That’s a lot of bank accounts. Yes. Okay. 


Peter [00:05:05] Yeah. And trying to figure out what are my like, what are my caps or taps or like, we don’t have to go into like that level of detail maybe. I mean, we could we could not. But like just sort of in general, like, how much money do I need in a month? Like, I have a general idea, Like overall, here’s how much money I would like to see, but it’s coming from two different sources now. And for education, business is very sporadic. I did a training just last week which went very well, kind of a two-hour intro to psychedelics for health care providers. My next one’s in September. So, you know, like every like maybe 3 to- 3 months or something if I get money, like, that’s really weird. That’s hard. 


Linzy [00:05:47] Yeah. And that, that is- Yeah, my first kind of wondering is with the second business. So let’s say the first business is therapy, supervision, clinical work. The second business is your education training business. What is the income looking like in that second business right now? 


Peter [00:06:03] So I have some trainings for another company and I get a percentage of sales for that recording and that could be- lately that’s been averaging like $100 a month. No, it’s not a huge deal. And then if I have a training, like a live thing that they sell tickets to, maybe this one I got a percentage of sales, which was really nice. The next one, it’s a flat fee and they’re usually a flat fee and that’s pretty sporadic. Like, So I had June and then I got September, probably October. That one’s not finalized yet, but so. And that’s it for the year. 


Linzy [00:06:37] Yeah. It sounds almost like quarterly for those it’s kind of like every three months there’s like a training. 


Peter [00:06:42] Yeah. 


Linzy [00:06:42] If we average it out for the year so like four trainings a year. But wondering that I have is how, how much do you want that business to grow. 


Peter [00:06:50] Ideally, I would like that to be most of my business like maybe- and that could be 51%. You know, like I enjoy being a therapist. Like I get something out of that that helps fill my cup in a way, but I don’t want that to be everything. And it’s really important to me to move away from one on one services for two reasons. First of all, because then I can reach more people on a good week. Like there’s a pretty low ceiling for how many, how many like hours. I can be seeing people. 


Linzy [00:07:22] Of course. 


Peter [00:07:23] So like I’m- if I want to affect more people, I have to do one too many offerings. And two, I really like doing education stuff like I could just do groups, but I like the education because it’s a lot of it is asynchronous and that’s really important to me. I have chronic health issues that I’m constantly working on and that’s unpredictable. Maybe this week I could see 20 clients if I wanted to, but next week, maybe not. 


Linzy [00:07:45] Yeah. 


Peter [00:07:45] No, I can’t- I need flexibility and being able to just create educational content whenever I feel like it.  That works really well for me. 


Linzy [00:07:58] Yeah. I’m speaking as someone who’s kind of on that other side where I have flipped, in my case, fully into education. It is much more flexible and demands less of us on a weekly basis. It’s kind of like you can show up and create something amazing when you’re feeling great and when you’re not. There’s much less demand on your energy, period. So I certainly see a lot of wisdom in that path for you. So then thinking about where you’re at now, what I’m hearing is lots of bank accounts between the two and also how to think about these pots of money or what to maybe expect from these pots of money. Tell me more about what’s not clear right now of how to manage these two different pools of money. 


Peter [00:08:37] Two things come to my mind. One is, for both businesses, my income is unpredictable. That is the single most difficult and uncomfortable thing about being a therapist. I talk to family and friends who work for a company and I don’t want to go back to working for a company. I don’t think I could do that. But like man, to just like, know what’s going to be in your bank every two weeks. That sounds nice. 


Linzy [00:09:04] Yes, absolutely. Okay. 


Peter [00:09:05] So that’s hard in general. And now if you have like two kinds of inconsistent income. So one item is like how much? You know, I’m trying to to come to a certain number. And some of that is coming from clients and some of that is coming from training. So it’s harder for me to like, know what to reach for, you know, what are my targets, and then, too, thinking about business expenses. This training business that I just made, there really aren’t any. Like I bought a year of Canva. Like, what am I going to do? Like, maybe like, I’ll buy a nice microphone or write something, but like, that’s a very low cost business. And so, yes, maybe that’s fine. Like, maybe just I mean, they’re both LLC, so it all just goes into the same pot for taxes anyway. So anyway, doesn’t really matter. But just like for the government, it doesn’t really matter where the expense goes. But for me personally, like, yeah, like just maybe it’s okay to just have a business with like $100 of expenses a year. Like, is that okay? I guess that’s okay. 


Linzy [00:10:10] Yes. Yes. Yeah. And with this, like, what I’m hearing is that right now, too, the way things look, gradually you’d like to kind of shift gears, right? And this is a podcast and nobody can see me, but I’ve got like kind of two levers and they’re switching position so that eventually it’s that more of your income is coming from this like this teaching work and less of it relatively is coming from therapy right now it’s very much the other way where it sounds like right now the vast majority of your income, the way that things are set up now, will be coming from therapy or is coming from therapy. And the teaching stuff is just kind of starting, right? Like you’re really establishing that business. And so with that, like there’s a couple of things that come to mind with me. Partly what I’m thinking about is what you’re looking for in terms of that stability. That is something that you can create, right? Part of your puzzle is deciding how you want to create it. So right now, the language that one of my business colleagues uses for her therapy is her bread and butter, right? So she’s got a teaching business and has gotten some traction with it, but it’s nothing compared to what she can build or earn because of her clinical work, because she’s built a reputation for years. It’s the work that she usually does. Right now, therapy is your bread and butter. So one curiosity that I have is like, how quickly do you want to start to make this transition where you can rely less on therapy and start to rely more on that teaching work? 


Peter [00:11:32] Yeah, it’s a good question. A year maybe, you know, 9 months, 12 months, that would be pretty good. I guess. There’s definitely some things that will be going on in my life about nine months in the future. It’d be nice to be kind of like settled by then. If that’s realistic, I don’t know. 


Linzy [00:11:51] Sure. Yeah, because something that I am thinking about here is making a stepped plan for yourself in these numbers, because part of the puzzle is figuring out how you want the money to flow so that you have that regular paycheck, which, you know, I’m very passionate about stability and that is something that is can add a lot of value to your life, especially when health can go up and down knowing that there’s enough stability built into your numbers, that you’re still going to get paid the same amount. Whether it’s been a good week or a bad week is very valuable, right? So there’s that piece. But then also it’s thinking about the second variable of like shifting gears. So more money’s starting to come in from teaching and less money is coming in from therapy and that teaching business can start to take care of you more. There’s less reliance on the therapy work, more on the teaching. So that’s almost like it’s two different pieces, but it’s here and I’m saying like kind of like a there’s a path there that can be laid out that solves both of those problems together. 


Peter [00:12:42] Okay. 


Linzy [00:12:43] My first question with where you are right now is, do you know how much you need to earn to bring home the paycheck that you need to take care of your household? 


Peter [00:12:52] Yeah, I. I ran those numbers and I don’t remember. I do remember that ten clients a week would meet the minimum. You know, I’m not going to be, like, saving for fancy trips to Europe or anything, but ten clients a week consistently will like, be just enough. 


Linzy [00:13:10] So covers your needs. That’s not your wants. 


Peter [00:13:13] And that was also, I remember, ten clients a week assuming my full rate. I’m on a few insurance panels. I’m selective. You know, just the ones that like pay well and don’t want lots of things from me. 


Linzy [00:13:25] Yes. Don’t make life too difficult. 


Peter [00:13:27] Yeah, but so if we assume a full rate, which is 180 an hour. Yeah. What did I say, ten clients a week. Yeah. So it’s just under 8000 a month of revenue. 


Linzy [00:13:37] And you know what your assumed business expenses would have been without your operating expenses that come out of it? 


Peter [00:13:42] Let’s see. My target right now is I think like 25%. It’s higher now, but that’s what I want to like move towards. 


Linzy [00:13:49] So if it’s 25%, so $2,000 month is towards operating expenses. And so that would leave $6,000 as kind of what’s left for you. Some of that is taxes. So some of that is paycheck. So $6,000 a month thinking about that now. So if we did $6,000 a month, if we take out your tax rate, do you have clarity on what your effective tax rate is, how much we should be assuming you need to put aside?  


Peter [00:14:15] My old accountant- I just switched so my old tax preparer was saying 25% of net. 


Linzy [00:14:19] Of net. 


Peter [00:14:19] My new tax preparer saying 30% of net. 


Linzy [00:14:23] Little higher. 


Peter [00:14:24] So I’ve been doing split the difference. 27.5. 


Linzy [00:14:28] I had a feeling you were going to say that. 


Peter [00:14:29] 10% of whatever’s left after. 


Linzy [00:14:33] Okay. Yeah. So in this case it would be like $6,000 times 0.275. So you’re putting aside $1650 for taxes. And then are there any other things with your profit first that you try to save for in the business? So are there any of the profit first buckets you have right now? 


Peter [00:14:51] Right now I’m just at the minimum so I have- I’m doing 1% per for profit and I’ve also created a have a retirement and that’s also just the minimum 1%. 


Linzy [00:15:00] And we’re holding space for those, which is great. So profit 1%, retirement is 1%, taxes- to clarify, Peter, that’s 27.5% of your revenue coming in like that’s your profit first number or is that that’s your take home. 


Peter [00:15:14] Revenue minus OpEx. 


Linzy [00:15:16] Okay, so it’s off your net. Okay. So do you know how that fits into your profit calculator right now. 


Peter [00:15:20] Yeah, it’s about the number that you came up with. I think it was like 16 or 17% of gross. 


Linzy [00:15:25] Okay. Okay. So with this now, like thinking about these numbers, how close are you now to seeing these numbers of like the 8000 off the top and then being able to distribute all the money to these percentages? 


Peter [00:15:38] I’m like halfway there- this week is a holiday week. So it’s weird. But last week, last few weeks, I’ve been averaging about five clients a week. 


Linzy [00:15:46] Okay. 


Peter [00:15:46] Like half of what I would like. 


Linzy [00:15:49] Yeah. Okay. So you’re halfway there. Looking at your business growth because you just reopened your doors two months ago. Right. To put this in context, looking at your growth, how long do you think it’s going to take you to get up to that 8000? That’s the base that you like to see? 


Peter [00:16:03] I don’t know. That’s a really hard thing. In my own business. I’ve never been full, like I’ve never had enough. I had my own business. And then for a while I worked at a group practice and then I went back to just having my own business. In the group practice, I was full, but then I was not making much because I was in a group practice. But in my own business, I’ve never really, like gotten enough people. So I know, like in your training, you know, you had this great idea of put money into an owner’s comp account and then if it’s more than I actually need. 


Linzy [00:16:35] Yes. 


Peter [00:16:36] Leave the extra there. 


Linzy [00:16:37] Yes. 


Peter [00:16:38] With a low month. But I’ve never really consistently I don’t want to say never, but I’ve never consistently. 


Linzy [00:16:43] Yes. 


Peter [00:16:43] made what I need. 


Linzy [00:16:45] Had that experience. Yes. 


Peter [00:16:46] Yeah. Which is another reason to try a different business because this first business has not been consistently getting me what I need. 


Linzy [00:16:53] Yes. And we also know that it comes with risks for you because it’s so reliant on having to show up in a certain way that takes a lot of energy. So this is where I’m thinking about that shift towards the other business, too, right? Because we can think about these two businesses as almost two pieces of the puzzle that together will support you. Yeah, right. And I’m hearing that so far and that’s the past. So it doesn’t mean it’s the future, but so far you have not had the experience of being able to get the clients that you want to have the amount from your private practice that you want to see with this. Like my curiosity then goes to what is possible in that second business to get those numbers working so that you are being taken care of without having to push to see probably more clients than you might be wanting to see anyways in terms of your health. Because right now I know part of your question when you had submitted it before we chatted today was like working with numbers when you’re building and it’s not really there. Right. And so right now, as you said, like your upgrade expenses are relatively higher because those expenses don’t go down just because you’re not seeing the clients you want to see. Yeah, but, you know, I could see from the outside knowing you, I’m like, I think you can get up to that eight that you want to see, and then that’s going to change your optics. But it’s also like, what is your long term plan, right? And how can you start thinking about that long term well-being and long term business sustainability, which sounds like it’s leaning more towards teaching, right, getting that teaching work. And so I’m curious, Peter, from an energetic perspective, how much energy each week do you give to each of these businesses? 


Peter [00:18:28] I’d say like my target energy percentages. I rent an office and I see clients two days a week. So I try to just think about my therapy business two days a week, and then I try to think about my training business two days a week, and then Fridays, maybe I do a little extra work if there’s a deadline or something. Or I could just not. So Friday is kind of an optional day. I’m trying to do like an even split. Doesn’t always happen that way. But that’s the goal. 


Linzy [00:18:55] Yes. And with the work that you’re putting in on those two days a week for the teaching business, what have you been working on to bring up the revenue in that business? 


Peter [00:19:05] Yeah, well, lately it’s just been preparing for this training that was just, you know a week ago. Wow. What a long week. That was just a week ago. There’s, you know, creating material for training for other people. I also really want to try my hand at hosting my own training, you know, doing my own webinar or a masterclass or something that’s entirely, you know, self-hosted. Creating material. That’s number one, just like making content and reading papers and stuff, staying up to date on content and other people’s content, making my own content. That’s definitely the bulk of it. But also doing kind of some relationship marketing and just seeing who else is there. I got a list of some podcasts to reach out to, I haven’t reached out to anyone else yet, but get the word out there. And it’s mostly been local relationship marketing that I’ve been doing, not as much in online spheres, but I’m sure I’ll get to that eventually.  


Linzy [00:20:02] Yeah. Because thinking about that and like, I like your framing, your target percentages for your energetic distribution, that one-to-many business model has so much more potential to bring revenue. Right? And it’s like you you can build it when you’re feeling good, right? You create material you feel really good about and literally thousands of people can consume that material individually on their own pace, as you mentioned, asynchronously, and get great value from it, right? Even if you recorded it five years ago, that can be the case. And so as you’re thinking about your business energy, I am curious about what would happen if you made a specific plan to actually get revenue really going in the teaching business. I’d like actually thought about, okay, I’m going to do my own workshop for the first time in October. This is an example. Obviously you do whatever you want. And on those days, really work towards like building that list, right? Like getting those partnerships in place, booking a venue and really working towards like a large revenue-generating event that then can be replicated, right? Like making a signature training that you gave or a signature kind of experience. What do you notice thinking about bringing that kind of energy in like kind of really revenue informed and revenue focused business building activities? 


Peter [00:21:19] Yeah, I noticed two things. One is kind of excitement. I had begun doing some of that work in Next Level Therapist, and so I have kind of a skeleton of, of an idea that I’m working towards. And so I had been kind of putting that on the backburner because I had this deadline for this, you know, a training for this other company, and that’s over. So now I can reallocate that time to my own thing. Yes. So I’m excited to like, make that happen and like, build that thing. And also there’s some fear, there’s some unease because I’m you know, I’m really putting myself out there and it’s nice to make content for another company because they do all of the marketing, like should take a big chunk of the ticket sales, but they do all the marketing, they have their social media accounts, they handle payment processing and refunds and the like. They do everything. They do all the tech support, like it’s all on them. And I do my own thing that’s on me and I’ve never done this before. And like, what if, you know, what if I put myself out there and no one comes or people come, but then there’s a bunch of technical glitches or they don’t- What if they don’t like me? You know, that’s always that’s always part of the story. What if they don’t like me? Years of experience suggesting that that people will like me. 


Linzy [00:22:34] Yes. 


Peter [00:22:34] That’s that’s a story. That’s a voice in there. 


Linzy [00:22:37] Sure, Of course. Of course. Yeah. And I think if you think about the function of that voice, like, what is that voice trying to do for you? 


Peter [00:22:44] Keep me safe. 


Linzy [00:22:45] Yeah, Keep you safe. Keep you small. 


Peter [00:22:47] Yeah. Small is safe, quiet and invisible is safe. 


Linzy [00:22:51] I’m curious, Peter, when you have done trainings and you have put yourself out there and like I might be projecting, but I know for me when I have these moments where I’m like teaching and I’m in the group and you’re just like, I’m in it. Like, this is good. I’m in my space. I’m curious like, what is it like when you really are in that teaching space? 


Peter [00:23:07] Yeah, it’s exciting. This one I did last week, like I finished it and I was like, I was feeling high, you know? And I wasn’t. I wasn’t high, but I was, you know, we were talking about drugs for 2 hours. 


Linzy [00:23:17] To clarify. Yeah. Yeah. 


Peter [00:23:18] But I was. Yeah, just really I was up, you know, I was just energized. I think it’s probably the best training I’ve ever done. Yeah. No, it’s my first time trying making it in Canva instead of Google slides. Just like it just looks prettier. The way that I kind of paced myself went really well. I had the Q&A was like, there were too many questions. Like, there wasn’t enough time. 


Linzy [00:23:43] Yes. 


Peter [00:23:43] I’ve done this training before and it’s like crickets. And that’s that’s the worst. Yeah. I mean, I can ramble on if no one has any questions for me, but I can fill space. But it’s it’s just it felt good that they were like people wanted to talk to me more than I had room for. 


Linzy [00:23:58] So, yes, it felt good. Yeah. And talking about this now what do you notice? 


Peter [00:24:02] Yeah, I’m just. I’m feeling more kind of up. More like lighter. 


Linzy [00:24:05] Mm hmm. When I think about where you’re at and you’ve got these two streams of income, neither one is where you want them to be. And there’s lots of complexity we can add to that, right? Like, we could totally spend an hour digging into your exact profit first percentages and exactly how to manage the, like, not enough money yet. I think that’s in the weeds. Does that phrase make sense to you when I say that? Being in the weeds? 


Peter [00:24:29] Yeah, I think so. 


Linzy [00:24:30] Yeah. And being in the weeds can feel safe in a way. It’s like when you have this little math problem to work on, you get to get nice and small and mathy and try to figure it out and make it perfect. And what I’m noticing is when you actually talk about this teaching work and the actual experience of being in it, there’s this expanding, right? There’s this up that happens this lift in your energy, right? And that is what’s actually going to bring in the money, then you can divide up. That is what I would suggest you follow, right? If that’s where the inspiration is, because people can feel that from you. Right. And when you’ve really, like, owned your own excitement and passion and you’ve done all this work that you’re doing to be very informed and bring in all the research and you’re able to educate people about something that you are genuinely excited about and knowledgeable about. They feel that from you and they’re going to tell their colleagues like, Oh, Peter does this great training, the next time you’re doing an event, or you know, for other folks who are wondering about psychedelics. And so I’m wondering like if you shifted your gears to really focus on like doing something bigger than you’ve ever done before and inviting in the idea that you might actually not be able to just get by but make like good money doing this work that you love, what is that like? 


Peter [00:25:48] Oh, it’s there’s a whole complicated thing there. That’s a lot. I feel excited and I have in the past been in a good place financially. I used to be a research scientist and I made more money than I knew what to do with. And yeah, when I- even working at the group practice, like they were taking a percent. So, you know, it wasn’t- I wasn’t making great money, but it was more than I needed. It was more than the minimum. Yeah. And I felt good. Like it feels, it feels lighter. I have more choices. I have more freedom. I think that’s really the thing about wealth is that it gives me freedom and flexibility. Like, I don’t care about buying things. I just want the flexibility to like work or not work or go somewhere or outsource something. 


Linzy [00:26:35] Yeah, And with that, then I’m curious about what would be the good numbers that you want to see between these two businesses, right? Like when I ask you your numbers, you know, your like getting by number, right? If it was more than the getting by number and let’s think about your salary right now. Let’s just think about your life, your take home paycheck, just cash in hand each month. What is the number for you that does give you that freedom and flexibility and like more than the minimum that brings, like, good things into your life? 


Peter [00:27:07] Mm hmm. Yeah. I’m not sure. I haven’t really done, like, dummies analysis on my personal expenses. Just have been focusing on the business. But to be able to see, like, whatever the minimum is and then, I don’t know, just a little bit more or a lot more. Yeah, I don’t have a specific number right now. 


Linzy [00:27:25] Yeah, And it could be a lot more. Right. Because my experience of your energy during this conversation and from working with you before is like, I know that you know how to get by and be, like, restrained or judicious or like, you know, like you don’t, you don’t ask for a lot. You don’t ask for a lot of space, you know. But I also see this like other part of you today that is sparky and- sparky is too strong a word. But that up I can feel that up energy and go right. And I’ll be curious what an up version of your life would look like. Not just your work, but actually your life. If you had a more inspired, energized version of your world, like what would be part of it? What would make life rich or meaningful? Like what do you want more of in your world? And that’s actually a question I’m asking you. What would you want more of in your world? 


Peter [00:28:14] Yeah, in my personal life, as well as my business life, I’d really love to be able to outsource things. Doing physically strenuous tasks for me is difficult. So like hiring someone to, like, clean my house and that’s not a considerable expense, like I’ve priced it, like that’s not like- I don’t have to be a millionaire to hire a housekeeper. So like outsourcing, that would be great. Outsourcing meals, you know, like it’s cheap. I make all my own meals because it’s cheap. And I know what the ingredients are. It’s healthy. I can fit all my, you know, sensitivities and allergens and stuff. But to be able to have someone do that for me, that would be great. So, yeah, it’s kind of like just outsourcing tasks and energy expenditure that I would rather expend that energy on something else. 


Linzy [00:28:58] Yes. Yes. Yeah. And the other piece, you know, that maybe somewhere else to get support is in that teaching business, right? So you mentioned like maybe have $100 a year expenses and that is a version of business, right? That’s like the bootstrapped like super simple because you do it all yourself. But I would be curious about what would become possible for you if you brought on a VA who is like really good at tech or like loves marketing or who can help you stay organized, like fill in any gaps that you have where you know, you tend to fall down because we all have them and have a team member to like be excited with you about some big training or event or like finally recording your signature course, but then you can just have for sale, right? Like what would it be like to bring more support into that business? 


Peter [00:29:43] Yeah, that would be wonderful. Just someone to, you know, to kind of the- definitely the marketing stuff and some of the organizational things like some parts of organization I’m good at and kind of come naturally. I used to be a research scientist, so like I’m, I’m all about spreadsheets and like procedures, but there’s other parts of like organizing content and workflows that I just, I don’t know, and maybe I could learn or I could just pay someone who’s already learned. 


Linzy [00:30:12] Yeah. And there are certain things I think, too, that we, we will enjoy learning and would be a satisfaction there. And there are certain things like, like I hate doing websites, I just hate it. It’s irrational, you know, like how much I dislike it, but I don’t do my own websites and I don’t do my own tech. There’s just certain things that I’ve outsourced from the very beginning, and it means that I haven’t had to give bandwidth over to learning something difficult, that it’s just never going to be enjoyable for me. Yeah. And then can channel that energy towards the things I am good at or the things that I would enjoy learning. The challenges that I want. Right? So coming towards the end of our conversation today, Peter, I’m curious, what are you taking away? What sticks out for you in our conversation today? 


Peter [00:30:50] Let’s see. Yes, focusing on- or not focusing, but allowing more space for the big picture and kind of the feelings and like, here’s what I want things to look like. It’s also important to think about like the details and percentages, but it doesn’t have to be the focus. So just kind of having a balance of the the big picture in the small picture space isn’t quite the right word, but some sort of like belief or, you know, I I’m following the hypothesis that I can do this, so I’ll figure it out maybe in nine months or I don’t know when, but probably this’ll work. I mean, it might work, right? 


Linzy [00:31:30] Yeah. And I’m curious, like if it was even stronger than that, if it was like, I am figuring this out. 


Peter [00:31:36] Hmm. 


Linzy [00:31:37] Or even the belief of I’m going to figure this out and make this really cool thing happen at this time, what would it be like to have even a little bit more? 


Peter [00:31:46] I am in the process of making this work. Yeah, I don’t. I’m not there yet, but I’m on that path. I have, like, things in place that I’m doing. 


Linzy [00:31:53] Yes. And I would be really excited and I really do encourage you to think about doing something that scares you, right? Because I’m familiar with the small, the staying small and staying safe. But I’m also hearing you already have lots of evidence that people like and not just appreciate what you do, but as you said, like have so many questions and want so much of you that there literally wasn’t time for you to answer all the questions that I’m sure you would have loved to answer and had great things to say to them. That shows you that there’s appetite and demand and there is this kind of marketing saying that like, if you’re not making yourself accessible, if people can’t find you, you are denying them the gift that you would be giving them by having the chance to learn from you. And right now there’s probably lots of folks who want more from you even coming out of that training that they can’t find you. There’s nothing else that they can do with you. Right. How does that idea sit with you? But. It’s a little bit of like, I don’t know, a stick idea rather than a carrot, but that like you’re kind of denying people this great experience with you by not really showing up and being like, Here I am. Come over here for more with me. 


Peter [00:32:57] Yeah, that’s the mindset I’ve been working on. It is definitely the opposite of what I learned from, you know, childhood and earlier on, but all the more reason to challenge that. But it’s something I have to consciously try on, but it’s becoming easier to get to wear that. 


Linzy [00:33:13] I can perceive this different version of you emerging from this work, which is very exciting. And I will be very interested and curious to hear what a more expanded version of your work and your life looks like as you step into this space. Thank you so much, Peter, for joining me today. 


Peter [00:33:28] Yeah, thank you. 


Linzy [00:33:43] In my conversation with Peter today, you heard that kind of shift midway where I could really feel that it was really the big picture that we needed to get into when we are working on something and it’s not where we want it to be yet. You know, Peter’s like two months into being back in practice. The numbers aren’t where he wants them to be yet. Eventually he wants that training business, that education business, to be most of his income. That’s not where he is right now. When we’re in that place, it can be easy to focus in on the numbers and try to like, make them work and like work them and rework them or rework them. But the reality is, is that counting money does not generate more money. Right. So if you’re in that place where there actually isn’t enough money, you know, you know that you need revenue growth in your business, trying to make your profit percentages perfect or looking at your numbers from 15 different angles is not going to make more money. What is going to make a difference to your business is channeling your energy towards those strategic, expansive, generative activities to like find your people and call them in, whether it’s clients or, in Peter’s case, building out that teaching business and making more resources, making himself easier to find, to serve those folks who want to learn about psychedelics, that is going to be far more impactful on your business than kind of reorganizing your pennies when there just isn’t enough of them. So it can be very tempting to get into that like small space and that can feel safe. But ultimately, what many of us have to do is that expansive work of being seen and putting ourselves out there and risking finding people who aren’t our people or risking crickets. But by doing that, that’s how we actually let the clients or audience that are for us, we let them find us and we start to be able to create the space where we can actually serve them or make the things to serve them. It’s that big picture work that actually makes the biggest difference in your business at the end of the day. And then you have money that you can purposely direct and set up those beautiful profit first percentages and all of that. But making money ultimately is going to get you much closer to where you want to be, than kind of tweaking percentages on numbers that you know are not working for you yet. If you’re enjoying the podcast, you can also check me out on Instagram at @moneynutsandbolts. And also if you’re enjoying the podcast, if you leave a review for the podcast on Apple Podcasts, it’s a help to have other folks who would be interested in hearing these conversations about therapy and money. It helps them find us if you leave an Apple podcast review. So if you have 5 minutes right now or you’re not doing anything, I would sincerely appreciate if you would go and leave us a podcast review. Thank you so much for listening today. 

Hi, I'm Linzy

Hi, I'm Linzy

I’m a therapist in private practice, and a the creator of Money Skills for Therapists. I help therapists and health practitioners in private practice feel calm and in control of their finances.

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