Linzy [00:01:00] Welcome to the Money Skills For Therapists podcast, where we answer this question, how can therapists and health practitioners go from money, shame and confusion to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of the course Money Skills for Therapists. Today’s episode is with Dr. Marcuetta Sims, Marcuetta is a recent graduate of Money Skills For Therapists, and this is a coaching session where we explore this challenge that so many of us face in private practice, which is having trouble making decisions about when to make those big purchases, those big investments like courses, trainings. When you don’t have the money in your budget, but you think it’s probably going to be beneficial, but don’t know that for sure. So we we walk through this together. This is a great episode. If you struggle with scarcity, we’re going to really dig into some scarcity mindset issues here and explore the roots of the scarcity where it comes from for Marcuetta. But also, if you struggle with this kind of abundance thinking that leads you to spend, spend, spend, but doesn’t really give you the returns we explore that to, that can be kind of the dark side of abundance thinking is that the more we spend, the more money comes back to us, and that’s often not the case. So Marcuetta and I in this episode, we really explore how to make those decisions from a grounded place. So if this is something you struggle with, this is the episode for you. Marcuetta is psychologist. She’s a yoga and meditation teacher. She’s the founder of the Worth Wisdom and Wellness Center, which is a group practice in Atlanta, Georgia. They specialize in providing anxiety, trauma, self-esteem and faith based treatment for black women and women of color. Marcuetta is a true delight of a human. I enjoy talking to her so much. Every time I talk to her, I feel lit up and energized. And this is a great episode digging into those scarcity and abundance traps. So here’s Marcuetta.
Linzy [00:03:08] Marcuetta, thank you so much for joining me today.
Marcuetta [00:03:12] Thank you for having me.
Linzy [00:03:13] So the question that you brought forward today for for our coaching session is such a good one. And I think that a lot of people relate to, which is this question of like how do you decide when to make a big purchase that could have a big return for your business, but the money is not in your budget right now. So can you tell me more about this and what this has looked like for you?
Marcuetta [00:03:35] Yeah, absolutely. So I’m thinking in particular of one big purchase that I wanted to make earlier this year, and it was to invest in a course, that says it’s going to have a pretty big return on investment over the next couple of years. And so I get really excited like, yes, great return on investment. Should I do this? And then I get paralyzed and making that decision because it’s like the money’s not in the budget and so do I wait, and I have these questions of is that out of a place of scarcity of like, am I going to be able to actually get the money back or should I be making these decisions out of this mindset of abundance of, of course, you’re going to get the money back. Of course, the return on investment is going to happen. You’re investing this money in your business, so go ahead and do the thing. But, yeah, I kind of struggle with how to make that decision and if it’s from one of those mindsets.
Linzy [00:04:28] Right. Yeah. Because they are like kind of like two extremes. Right. And I think something to know, like as we’re having this conversation is I think like abundance is used in marketing. Right. Because obviously that’s good for marketing. If we’re like, you know, if you do this, you’re going to be able to like call in all this money. I mean, that’s that’s a really nice marketing promise. So that’s part of it, too, I think would probably be part of this is like there’s a lot of messaging we’ve got about abundance and leading into abundance in order to make purchases of the things that people are selling us. So I’m curious first about kind of the experience, like what happens for you when you’re on the cusp of a decision like this?
Marcuetta [00:05:06] Oh, yeah. So this this one this one stands out for me so much because I remember being so super excited about it. And when the opportunity presented itself, it’s like, oh, this is fun. The following this person for a while, I really want to make this investment. And then almost immediately that anxiety comes up, but we don’t have it. And what if and what happens? Like what do I do if I make this big investment and then it doesn’t like it doesn’t work out like what happened. So the anxiety kind of comes over, comes and overshadows the excitement and then doubt and fear like all of those things start to spiral after that. And yeah, it just it’s kind of this battle that happens.
Linzy [00:05:55] Yeah. It sounds like, again, to extremes that you’re experiencing. Right. So that second experience like that anxiety “what if”, like is that a familiar place for you?
Marcuetta [00:06:07] Oh, for sure.
Linzy [00:06:12] And do you know much about that kind of experience or that part of yourself?
Marcuetta [00:06:16] Yeah. So I think that it’s kind of related to just like my money stories, my financial background, like I don’t come from a lot of money, like I’ve had the experience and my family of like our lights getting cut off or not having enough or even when I got to a place where I could be more financially stable of like loaning family members money when I’m in grad school. And so, like this this concept that like the reality is that there could not be more money. And so, like me translating those things from my personal life into my business, I think is a really big fear of mine. I could lose my business, which again is another extreme, but it does kind of feel like that of like I’ve had these significant losses when it comes to finances in the past, I’ve had people in my life who experience these significant losses. And so that fear of like you could just repeat the same patterns and then it can impact your business, which impacts my entire life, because that is my livelihood. Yeah. That’s where that anxiety comes from.
Linzy [00:07:23] Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like there would be like a spiraling down that could happen there playing through. OK, so like you had these experiences growing up so really awful of like insecurity. Right. Like financial insecurity and things being taken away. I’m curious what like in your business, have you had those experiences as well? Like what is your kind of experience in business been like so far in business just to let people listening know, like Marcuetta has her own practice, but she also runs a group practice.
Marcuetta [00:07:56] So far that hasn’t quite been the experience. I will say that recently and it was kind of shortly after. Thinking about this decision with the course and so I think that this probably also contributed to the anxiety of I paid a lot of money for taxes that I hadn’t quite prepared for. And so there was kind of that feeling of like, where is this money going to come from all at the same time of trying to make this decision about this big purchase, too. So I think that definitely like that present piece of like there isn’t enough and a real feeling of like there isn’t enough because I had not done the part that I was supposed to do, putting money aside for my taxes combined with those past experiences. So, yes, in the business, for the most part, things have been OK. But right before that decision, there was the tax thing and the dishing out the money related to that, right?
Linzy [00:08:55] Yeah. Which sounds like that would be activating to not have money there. You need it. Yeah. And then you’re trying to make this kind of growth investment at the same time. OK. OK. So yeah. So I’m hearing like lots of like lots of reasons that of course this comes up and then there’s this part of you that’s like this could go really badly because things have gotten really badly in your formative years. So I’m curious about the other side of this extreme now and like that, more abundance thinking. Can you tell me about kind of that side of the experience?
Marcuetta [00:09:26] Well, that is a very new side. So I think that I really just started stepping into an abundance mindset when it comes to finances like this year. And so this is all kind of getting my feet, getting my footing. But there’s a part of me that really does believe that, like, I can always make more money like there is. There is a possibility. I am a figure-it-out-er, like my Clifton strength is is an execution. And so, like, I am able to do and figure things out. So the abundance mindset says, yeah, this is an investment we’re making right now. But we also know that you’re a great student, that you like to do things, and so you’re going to get it done. And if you are trying to figure things out, you’re going to figure out how to make more money. You’re going to figure out how to make this work. And so, like, go ahead, make an investment and then do what you need to do to make it work, because that is also a part of my formative years. When you don’t have a lot and you don’t have enough, you make it work, you figure it out. So I think that it’s that, too.
Linzy [00:10:33] OK, so, you know, as you’re describing this abundance of like what I’m also noticing is it’s not like this like bag abundance mindset of just like, you know, manifesting it in a vague way. But like what I’m hearing is like you are a learner, you know how to figure it out and you know how to, like, implement and make things happen. So when you’re connected with that part of you. How do you kind of reason through making like a big investment, like the one that you did ultimately make?
Marcuetta [00:11:05] Yeah, it was exactly that. It was being able to. And I wish that now that we’re talking about it, I wish that I would have been more strategic of looking at what the actual numbers were. So now I’m in a space where I would actually say, OK, and we’re going to make this investment. This is these are the number of clients that I need to see in order to make this amount of money. I didn’t do the specifics at that time, but I did say to myself, I am going to make sure that I am able to make this money bag. And I know that if we are on track for our goals for the year, this is going to come back two- three- fold. And so that was kind of and that was one train of thought. And then I think another train of thought that I have in terms of abundance is just like especially with the pandemic and COVID, all of these things happening, I’m not guaranteed to be here next year. Like there is no- there’s no assurance that tomorrow is promised. And so for me, sometimes it really is about like take this leap of faith, do this thing now because we don’t know what’s going to happen. And so I think that was another part of my reasoning is like, who knows where we’ll be in a year? So I want to do this now because I don’t know.
Linzy [00:12:26] Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, like when I hear that what I’m hearing that you’re talking about layering on top now is like, of course, exactly what I would suggest that you do, which is like ground yourself in the numbers. Right. So this is an investment and those investments can feel like a really big deal. Like I just laid out just under seven thousand dollars for a new program. I’m already in an expensive program, BTW, but it’s thinking about, OK, what would be the return that I would have to get to pay for this? Like what impact would it have to have in my business to make it like totally worth it? And so I am curious about that, for the investment that you made, now kind of maybe putting our strategic mind on it, what would make it worth it? Like what is some outcome, some change you can make in your business that would make this investment totally worth the money?
Marcuetta [00:13:18] And what is so interesting about that is when I really break it down. So to put numbers out there, the investment was three thousand dollars. And so the reality is that I could see one new client, like literally have one session at the rate that my rate is have one session a month. Yes. And that would cover it if we broke it down into a 12 month program like that.
Linzy [00:13:43] That’s very illuminating.
Marcuetta [00:13:45] Yeah. So when I really like the reality is that. Yes, I made this huge this large sum of money at one point, but it also like you could have paid it in monthly installments. So if I think about what the monthly installments actually were and I think about like, so this is my rate, I need to see literally not one client a month, but one session with a price to pay for this one client or with my clinicians. They would need to see one to two sessions with the client to be able to pay for it. And so the reality is that and I literally had no thought or concept of this when I was making the decision, but the reality is that it’s not that hard to be able to recoup the funds for it. So, yes.
Linzy [00:14:30] Yeah. And when you come at it with that strategic lens, what do you notice about the decision?
Marcuetta [00:14:36] It just it makes it easier to make the decision and it makes you look like a no brainer in some ways. Yeah. And it really does make it more just attainable. And I even think sometimes it’s hard to explain to my loved ones are like my husband, like the strategic part, because it’s in there that strategic partners in the back of my mind somewhere. But I usually lead with the abundance part, with the like. Yes, this is going to be fine. So even like being able to break that down for myself and break that down for my partner, I think is helpful because it gives us a lot more sense of security and stability around the decision as opposed to what can feel very terrifying for people to be hanging out in abundance.
Linzy [00:15:29] Right? Yes. Yeah. And and something that I want to reflect to you that’s maybe different than your situation growing up. And I don’t know your family story, but thinking about having a business, something that is different is you do have like an income generating machine that you have built. Right. And you’ve done that by getting trained in your case, getting a Ph.D., building reputation, getting more training, like finding a niche that you thrive in. You know, to the point that you’ve been able to bring on other clinicians, like you are standing on a foundation when you’ve made this investment right. It’s not as though you have nothing and you’re investing three thousand dollars on your credit card for something that is nebulous. And and you don’t tend to generally follow through on things. Right. That would probably be like not a wise investment. But I also wonder how connected you are to that when you’re making these decisions to you’re adding something onto this incredible. Well, it’s a business to this machine. I think of the term machine. This is a board game reference, by the way, a machine you’ve already made. You already have all these parts that you put together to allow you and your clinicians to generate income. If you think about it like that, you’re adding on how does that sit with you?
Marcuetta [00:16:46] So there are two things, if I’m being honest, that come up. One, it’s terrifying because it’s this business is still so new and so scary to me. And so there’s always this part. And I don’t know if it’s like scarcity or just like fear. That’s in the back of my mind of like what is it? Is it going to work out? Like, is it going to keep generating income, like are all of the clients again, extremes. Right. All the clients just going to disappear? Yes. I could have any more money coming in all at one time. They’re all just going to go away. So there is always that part back there. But the reality is like. It feels very empowering because I I am the first person in my family to actually have like a successful income generating machine to this level, and so it is extremely empowering and extremely like, life altering in so many ways because like, when I joined your course, one of the things that I said was really important to me, like the why behind doing this is I want to create generational wealth, like I want to create a legacy. I want to build a foundation for other people to stand on so that they never have to have the kinds of stories that I had growing up. And so that feels like really good. And combining that with the strategy part by combining that with these are the actual real numbers that I would need to be able to do this. It helps to make it feel a lot more practical rather than I think I get lost in the like the woo-woo. I am so woo-woo, I really am, like I’m a yoga meditation teacher, I like all of it. And so and I also need something to hold on to so that it really allows me to kind of tap into both of those pieces of my soul.
Linzy [00:18:47] Mm hmm. So, I mean, thinking about this going forward, then, you know, when you’re coming to the cusp of decision like this, again, let’s say next week, you learn about some really cool course that promises things that are the things you need. How can you think through this decision?
Marcuetta [00:19:05] One thing I am trying to do better, because I didn’t mention this part, but sometimes there is an urgency part that comes up in making the decision. And like you said earlier, like those in abundance parts of marketing, there’s also the time crunch.
Linzy [00:19:24] Oh, it’s real. Yes, that is a marketing strategy that works. Really, really works. Yes. And so that’s external, too. But internally. But also, you do have external pressure being put on you and you have to buy in a certain time frame.
Marcuetta [00:19:38] Exactly. And I get sucked into it. I get it. I get this bonus, these bonus scripts. If I sign up by 11:59 tonight and I just out about it this morning. So one thing that I have committed to is waiting by giving myself a couple of days, regardless of what the bonus or the incentive is, but really giving myself at least a day or two, sometimes even a week to just say, OK, is this really a purchase that I want to invest in? And then the second part is breaking down the costs. Like if we look at it from the perspective of how much do I need monthly over the course of however long this course is and be really intentional about, OK, this is how much I need, can I then do income generating activities that would allow me to to pay for that? And I actually I just did this in my personal budget as well. We wanted to hire a house cleaner and we were looking at the budget and I was like, well, I have this little side hustle that will bring in exactly the amount that we would need to cover this. Does that feel better? And it felt so much better. So that strategic part of breaking it down, how much would we need to bring in? How much would this cost extra and how much do we need to cover it? And then I think that the other part is just like just going back to trusting and trusting that it is doable, but trusting myself too like I like I said earlier, I know me. I’m a doer, like, I’m going to make something happen. So I’m going to do like I know that, especially if if it’s something that’s important to me. So remembering the foundation that I am building, the the thing that I this machine that I am creating, I wanted to be successful because there are greater things that work for me. So getting in touch with like trusting myself, trusting God to be able to do that and just moving forward from there. Yeah.
Linzy [00:21:53] And I think with that strategic piece too, Marcuetta, I like something that I, I want to share that I’ve noticed about therapists who do a lot of courses, many of whom come through my course, is I think also part of the strategic it’s the numbers and it’s also like the time like is this the right thing right now. Right. Because we always have an urgency being put on us, which totally works on me. On this program I just joined BTW, I saw a Facebook post being like, no, you know, only one spot left. And I was like, AH, even though I knew I was probably being counted as a student, even though it didn’t work, I like it. I signed up. I didn’t even do a pre call. That urgency can really hook us sometimes. But it’s also that question of like, is this the right thing for you right now? Right. Because there’s only so much we can take on board. And even being a doer. Right. We still and we have so much bandwidth and so much like time to be implementing things and letting them play out and trying to. Right, and so that would be something else I would encourage you to kind of add into that decision just thinking like is right now the right time or six months from now, be the right time?
Marcuetta [00:22:53] That’s so true. And I’m so glad you brought that up, because you’re absolutely right. Like the creating the time, having the time to be able to invest in these courses or whatever it might be like. It doesn’t even have to be a course, but something that’s going to take up your time. That is such a helpful reminder for me. And I would say that the other part, too, because as I was talking about it, it’s that sounded more like when I’m making the decision to do something. But I think that also giving myself permission to not that is a really important thing for me, because once I get my mind set on something, I’m like, no, I want it. I just want to do it. I get by and I try to like I will make it fit. Right. So I’ll look and I’ll say, well, these are the number of clients that we need to get to be able to do this. But the reality is, I can also give myself permission to not do the thing that maybe the time isn’t there or maybe I don’t want to like. Yeah, I want to get more clients, of course, but maybe I don’t want that extra income to go towards paying off something else that I’ve already invested in. Yes. So I think that also giving myself permission to say no, not right now is really important.
Linzy [00:24:07] Absolutely. Because I think something to that as you grow as a CEO or leader of your business, whatever term resonates with you, there does come to be a point where it’s really thinking about like, OK, this this quarter, what are we working on? And we’re not doing anything else. Right. So I also really like starting to think really zooming out and being like, what is my business need? Where are our deficits? What do I need as the leader? Right. And then when am I going to do those things? Because I have a whole year to accomplish something in my business and then I have a year after that and then I have another year. So doing that zoom out as well can be good because there are going to be certain things that kind of will really benefit from paying attention to at certain times. And then other things are like, well, that could be cool. Like I could take a course too, I don’t know, learn how to do really effective Facebook lives. And I’d be neat, but like, is that going to make a difference right now? No. What will make a difference right now? So fitting it into this even more zoomed out strategic picture can be a helpful thing as well. Yeah, for sure. So coming towards the end of our conversation, what are you taking away today?
Marcuetta [00:25:12] So many things. One, I can make these decisions. I think the first part of that, I feel like I’m kind of a question like trusting myself and being able to make these decisions so I can do that, that there is a strategic way to make the decisions. And so look at the time. I’m going to start putting that first, because that’s a really big part for me. And the financial pieces like how much does X investment need to be able to be covered? How many clients does that need? And then just and learning to trust more, keep leaning into that and also give myself permission to say no when I need to when it doesn’t fit into those things.
Linzy [00:26:03] Mm hmm. That’s great. Well, I am excited to see how this investment that you made, how you use it to grow your business and, you know, do all those next level things that you’re working on doing.
Marcuetta [00:26:15] Me, too, Linzy
Linzy [00:26:18] great. Thanks for being with me, Marcuetta.
Marcuetta [00:26:20] Yes. Thank you, Linzy.
Linzy [00:26:24] I’m so appreciative of Marcuetta for coming on and doing this coaching session with me and exploring this issue, because I think it is something that so many of us struggle with. And I even notice it in myself, you know, falling more into that restrictive scarcity place. I find for me it’s usually connected to if I’m more generally anxious. Money is a great place to put that anxiety and that scarcity and holding back, which actually is not helpful when we’re trying to grow our businesses, because often we do need to be making investments, but also making sure not to fall into that more and more and more place. So really finding that balance center. And that’s so much of what I coach my students to do in the work that I do with them in Money Skills For Therapists, is finding that center for yourself where you’re able to make those informed decisions but are still in touch with your emotions. So you’re still moving your business in the direction that feels inspiring for you. But you’re also being real about the potential return on investment and what this can do for you, or not, at this time. But taking that opportunity to zoom out. And I think the things that Marcuetta talked about that she’s already putting in place for herself around making sure that she doesn’t fall into that urgency too quickly when there’s an offer for something, taking her time to think about it because she knows she can jump into things too quickly is a great strategy that I think would be useful for most of us when we’re making decisions for our business, just making sure that we’re taking enough time to know that, yes, this is the right thing. And I would add that it’s at the right time. So thanks so much to Marcuetta. If you want to hear more from Money Nuts and Bolts, you can follow me on Instagram. The link is in the show notes, but it’s just @moneynutsandbolts. We’re putting out free money content there all the time, both in terms of the mindset and practical pieces of making money work in your life and your private practice. If you feel ready to take those next steps and really start to work to get your money working for you like Marcuetta has done, get on the waitlist for Money Skills For Therapists. We open the course to certain parts of our lists at certain times. And so if you get on our waitlist, you will hear about it when we open the course again. You can see the link in the show notes get on that wait list and when Money Skills For Therapists opens, you’ll be the first to hear about it. Thanks for listening.