Meet Marcia Dawood

[00:00:00] Marcia: Why would you be an angel investor? It’s a risky asset class so you do have to think about that, but at the same time, I’m like, hey, This is something that you can do, that you can really feel good about the work that some of these companies are doing. And it’s like an impact driven thing, but it is also, that you’re helping people to really make change in the world.

[00:00:29] Linzy: Welcome to the Money Skills for Therapists podcast, where we answer this question. How can therapists and health practitioners go from money shame and confusion to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Lindsay Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of the course Money Skills for Therapists.

[00:00:51] Linzy: Hello and welcome back to the podcast. Today’s episode is with Marcia Dawood. Marcia is an angel investor. She is the author of, do Good While Doing Well, where she talks all about angel investing, what it is, how to do it, and today in our conversation we talk about. What is angel investing since it’s a new idea? 

[00:01:12] Certainly for me, I knew like, nah, this much about it. For folks who are listening and can’t see me, I’ve got an inch of knowledge and I certainly have learned a lot just with this conversation with Marcia today. So what is Angel investing? What it’s been like to navigate the financial world as a woman and what Marcia has noted are kind of some trends, when it comes to women and money and finance, 

[00:01:33] and the importance of putting your money where your mouth is. Angel investing as we talk about today, is a way to put your money that you have towards companies that are making great things happening in the world. You know, really to make your money represent your values. It is not the way, to be clear, to just save for your retirement. Angel investing is much riskier than, you know, your typical kind of stock market investing that you might do through your retirement investments, but it is a way to make really cool things happen in your community. It is a way to make cool things happen in the mental health space, and to support people who are visionaries and who are going to change things in a really powerful way. It’s a way for us to make our money make good happen in the world, which is something that I certainly think about a lot, and something that I see as folks work through, you know, money skills for therapists, my signature course with me, or my, you know, other courses, money skills for group practice owners or mastermind work together.

 [00:02:28] Once therapists tend to get our financial house in order and money is no longer a stressor, then we start to think about how can my money actually make my life better, make my family’s life better, make the world better? And angel investing is an interesting way to do that. So here is my conversation with Marcia Dawood.

 [00:03:00] So Marcia, welcome to the podcast.

 [00:03:03] Marcia: Well, thank you so much for having me.

 [00:03:04] Linzy: Yes, I am excited to have you. We were just chatting a little bit off mic, about the folks who listen to this podcast, the folks that I serve, and the world that you’re coming from and I’m going to say that you are bringing things to the podcast today that we haven’t had yet in terms of your expertise and your experience.

 [00:03:21] So I’m excited for what you are bringing today. Could you give folks just a bit of an introduction so they know where you’re coming from as we move into this conversation?

 [00:03:29] Marcia: Yeah, so I was in education, worked for Kaplan for a very long time, and one day I was invited to an angel investing meeting because my husband worked in finance. Now, just as a side note, when I realized the potential that he had, and then where I got in my career, I was like, you know, I am just as good with finance as he could be, but I wasn’t really conditioned that way.

 [00:03:58] So even when I was invited to this angel investing meeting and I was like, oh, cool and then I was like, what’s that? Like, I have no idea what you’re even talking about, like investing that isn’t something that I’ve really been taught to do. I don’t really know that much about it. And so I went to the first meeting and I was just so incredibly fascinated because there were these entrepreneurs that were in my neighborhood, my backyard, because I was living in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at the time. I wasn’t even in like New York or San Francisco or some big, fancy place and I thought, oh my gosh, have I been living under a rock? I had no idea that there were, things happening all over.

 [00:04:35] And I realized just how little funding went to female founders and I thought, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait, wait. So we, women are like 50% of the population. You can’t tell me they only have like two or 3% of the good ideas, right?

 [00:04:51] Linzy: That’s bad math!

 [00:04:52] Marcia: Yeah, that’s bad, bad math, right? So, so then I started to piece some of it together. And I was like, you know, I think this is a problem, like a systemic problem because we as women are just not, we’re not taught, it’s not socialized for us to be, you know, the finance people. It’s like, that’s the guy’s job and I would talk to people over and over again about that.

 [00:05:13] And I finally got to a point where I was like, this is really frustrating. So this was maybe like 10, 12 years ago and then over the next, 10, 12 years, I’ve really been trying to focus my efforts not only on, hey, can I learn this? Which I was able to pretty quickly, but how can I get other people to feel comfortable with this?

 [00:05:31] Linzy: Yeah, and the angel investing world that you’re talking about, that you discovered 10 to 12 years ago, and we’re like, what is this? I can guarantee most people listening don’t know about it, either. So can you tell us about angel investing?

[00:05:43] Marcia: Yeah, so it’s basically simply put, it’s, you’re using your own money after tax dollars to invest in a private company. So we hear a lot about the public markets, we hear about Apple stock and Meta and all the things, right? But we don’t hear as much about the private markets because

[00:06:01] back in the day and when I say that, I mean like at least 10, 15, 20 years ago, you did have to have quite a bit of money. You had to be invited into the room, but that has changed so dramatically and now people can invest for as little as like 50, a hundred dollars. Where before you’d have to have thousands and hundreds of thousands.

[00:06:21] Right? And so this whole democratization that’s happening, and it’s still in the process of happening. We’re not, it’s not like tomorrow where you’re going to be able to buy stock in a private company like you can today on E-Trade and Robinhood, where you can do it in seconds, you know? And you couldn’t do that in public markets 30 years ago.

[00:06:39] So it is starting to change, but simply put, it’s like when you’re helping an entrepreneur to grow a company and you’re at that, like earliest of stages when they’re figuring it out, they might have an idea, you know, the angels come in before like the big VC people and the bigger dollars that are going to help the company to really scale

[00:07:02] but I look at it like, and I, have a podcast actually called the Angel Next Door because I was so fascinated as to why do people do that? why would you do this? Why would you be an angel investor? It’s a risky asset class so you do have to think about that but at the same time, I’m like, hey, this is something that you can do, that you can really feel good about the work that some of these companies are doing.

[00:07:26] and it’s like an impact driven thing, but it is also, that you’re helping people to really make change in the world. So I always say, like, I would hear the saying be the change you want to see in the world. And I’d think, yes, I want to be the You know, like, and then I’d be like, what do I

[00:07:44] Linzy: do?

[00:07:44] Right,

[00:07:44] Marcia: Like. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do and then I would see some of these companies and I’d think, oh, that’s really cool. They’re working on like a treatment or a cure for a disease, or maybe they’re working on something that could help the climate and I was like, I could be a part of that.

[00:08:00] Because I always thought, I’d have to be, you know, somebody big

[00:08:03] Linzy: yeah, yeah, yeah. Like have a

[00:08:05] Marcia: rich or Right.

[00:08:06] I didn’t think that me, I could do it. and it isn’t even just with money. What I love about this is there are people who have, and like considering your audience even, who have very specific skills and they can use the skills that they have, whatever they are, because all

[00:08:21] companies need all kinds of help. They could actually do that as something that is a give back so we think about giving back a lot of times as to charities, which is lovely. Everybody should be giving to charities and helping them and everything but if you think about the amount of money that goes to annual charitable giving, it’s a lot, but it’s really only equivalent to about 1% of the value of our US stock market.

[00:08:47] So if we’re thinking to ourselves, Hey, be the change, you know, and then, oh yeah, the charities are going to do that. That’s really not going to happen, right? We’re putting a burden on them that is way out of, what they have the means to be able to do so, like what can we do?

[00:09:00] Well, we could start to help some of these entrepreneurial companies and like, people are like, oh, okay, great. Well, where do I find them? Well, in a lot of cases there are entrepreneurs working on really cool stuff in every city, in every town. So I always tell people, just go to Google or search engine and just type in

[00:09:19] startup events or entrepreneurship or whatever in my town, and then just fill in your city or town because you’d be surprised how much really cool stuff is happening in your own backyard that you can go and find out about and meet new people. I met so many people that I never would’ve met because they were just weren in my industry.

[00:09:38] Linzy: Yeah, ’cause I’m hearing there’s kind of two cool opportunities here. One is you have the opportunity as somebody who has a few hundred bucks that you know, you wouldn’t be ruined if that money didn’t come back to you, right. Because like, first of all, just to be clear, we wouldn’t want somebody putting all their retirement savings into an

[00:09:54] Marcia: angel investment.

[00:09:54] Exactly. Don’t use your kids finance. You know your college

[00:09:58] Linzy: No college funds.

[00:09:59] Marcia: and they’re 15 years old.

[00:10:00] Linzy: So, you know, they are riskier investments, but as you say, it’s more of a values driven investment where you get to actually practically support making something that you want to see happen in maybe even your own neighborhood, your own community happen by funding somebody who is already doing this thing.

[00:10:14] So I’m hearing there’s the opportunity to put your dollars to work, you know, in terms of your values, but I’m also hearing for folks who might have a cool idea that they’re thinking about getting off the ground. This is another way to get funding to get started on some sort of neat vision that you have, is looking to angel investors, people who are happy

[00:10:31] to put money behind your vision and your project.

[00:10:34] Marcia: Right, and nowadays there are a lot of different ways to be able to invest. So I ended up writing a book called Do Good While Doing Well because I would try to explain as much as I could on my podcast, but it then there started to be so many episodes, people are like, okay, wait a minute. We need like a way to kind of navigate through all of this,

[00:10:53] andI just thought it was so interesting that you can invest, you know, like I said, for, you know, a little bit of money through what’s called equity crowdfunding and I explain all that in the book and also my podcast, but you can also use philanthropic dollars, you know, dollars that you would donate to charity that could potentially grow while you are kind of waiting to donate it to a charity.

[00:11:15] So in a lot of cases, it’s through a donor-advised fund and I won’t get into all the gory details, but basically if anybody has a donor-advised fund, and there are literally hundreds of billions of dollars sitting in donor-advised funds right now, and in a lot of cases, the managers of those funds will put them into a mutual fund or something like that, Apple stock, whatever,

[00:11:33] before it’s actually given to a charity and in a lot of those cases that can be used for private investments and it’s a way that, people can get money into these for-profit companies. Let’s say that that for-profit company does do well, it’s a way that you could potentially really expand on the money that you have for

[00:11:54] Linzy: charity.

[00:11:54] Right, right. You’re kind of investing the money first so it can grow and then you have so much more to give and for some language, for folks who are listening, I’m hearing you’re talking about, you know, private and public. So can you delineate just the difference between, you know, those public investments you’re referring to and private just for folks who are not familiar with that language?

[00:12:10] Marcia: Sure, so the public markets are what you hear about when people talk about some of these very big companies like Apple and things like that. They are publicly traded, meaning that you could go onto their website and they’re regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission, they have to have all their disclosures.

[00:12:28] They have to do quarterly reporting. Annual reporting, and pretty much there is nothing that goes on at a public company that all shareholders know about at any given

[00:12:38] time.

[00:12:39] Mm-hmm private companies are not regulated by the SEC to the level that, a public company is and some, you know, it depends on if they’re fundraising, kind of the offerings that they’re doing.

[00:12:50] But at the end of the day, the private market is, there’s a lot more companies, you’d be surprised how few companies are actually publicly traded. I think it’s like around 4, 700 companies right now in the United States, which isn’t a lot. And there are just millions of small businesses and other private companies, so think about a private company, could be anything from your dry cleaner down the street to, it could be a startup, which is what angels are mostly wanting to invest in.

[00:13:17] But there are, a lot of ways that people can even raise money if they have, a small business in their

[00:13:22] Linzy: neighborhood.

[00:13:23] Okay, okay, and then, you know, you were talking about going back to the beginning of your story, you know, realizing, seeing your husband’s kind of trajectory in finance and realizing like, I, I could do that too. I’m curious, like, what has been your experience like of stepping into this like very,

[00:13:38] I was going to say specifically financial. I’m not sure how to describe it, but you’re kind of, you’re getting deep into the finance world, I think, when you’re getting into these angel investor spaces ish. Yeah. Tell

[00:13:46] Marcia: In? Yeah, in some cases, yes. I mean, the first, angel investing conference that I went to, there was a line at the men’s room,

[00:13:53] Linzy: yeah,

[00:13:54] Marcia: tells you anything. So I mean, I, I did feel, especially from 2012 when I first got started until a couple years ago, like it was pretty male dominated.

[00:14:04] But I feel like that’s the way finance has been.

[00:14:06] You know, guys when they want to make a deal or talk to their friends about it. It’s no big deal. They talk about their salaries, their jobs, their careers. They help each other. They’re on the golf course, they’re texting each other, blah, blah, blah.

[00:14:17] Right? As women, we don’t do that, and I really would love to find the golf course for women, like my husband is a huge golfer, and we would have these discussions about golf and I’d be like, why can’t I take the same amount of time as a yoga class? I mean, come on and then I would realize, you know, it’s not that you’re playing golf, it’s that you have access to people that I don’t have access to.

[00:14:41] And I felt like angel investing was something that I got involved with that opened up my eyes to a lot of things that, hey, I can do that too and it doesn’t have to stop and start at angel investing. It was like all of the things, the people I could get involved with, the different types of, groups I could be around.

[00:14:57] That became my golf course.

[00:15:00] Marcia: Because then I kind of felt like, well, I’m included and I feel like I can have more to give to other people because I’m now getting fulfilled by the people that are around me.

[00:15:13] Linzy: Yeah, I mean golf is an interesting example you bring up, and I’m thinking about a joke from a comedian that I’m probably not going to tell well, but something that’s basically the effect of like, golf is what men do because they can’t admit that they just want to go for walks together. because it’s like you get to spend, you know, a couple hours together and you’re going to talk about everything and you’re going to talk business, and then you’re going to go off and do some other things.

[00:15:31] So there is this, long space there where people can talk things through, you know, maybe do some business like on the golf course itself. And you’re right, we don’t have really, there’s not an equivalent space that women tend to do a parallel thing. So I’m hearing for you, it’s like getting into these rooms has been the parallel for that.

[00:15:48] And what type of rooms are those? What is the financial world that you’re navigating with the angel investors? Is it groups? Is it people that you’ve formed friendships with? What are these relationships looking like?

[00:15:59] Marcia: So in some cases, well, in a lot of cases, angels invest in a group because no one angel investor has enough money to back, you know, some of these companies. So we kind of pool our resources together. Plus, I am huge fan of anybody who’s doing anything in the healthcare space, but I am not a scientist, so you do not want me analyzing the company.

[00:16:18] Okay. I’d be like, I love what they’re doing. Oh my God. I’m such a bleeding heart about it. So that would be bad. So I need to surround myself with the people that do know, you know, the scientists, the doctors, and all that kind of thing so that we can, have better conversations and look these

[00:16:33] Linzy: companies.

[00:16:33] Yes.

[00:16:34] Marcia: As far as the finance side, most of the deal structure is relatively similar and in a lot of cases nowadays, you can invest through funds and a fund would mean that, I could make one investment into a fund manager who would then invest in multiple startups. And it’s their fiduciary responsibility to us as the investors to actually go out and find the companies that fit into, what they said they were going to invest in.

[00:16:58] And that’s great because now if you’re somebody who’s like, hey, I like this idea, I don’t have the time. Okay, and I, I could see myself doing something like this, but I just would want somebody else to kind of manage it. That is a much, different option in some cases better.

[00:17:12] Linzy: That makes sense to me. I mean, it makes me think about a couple things. One, it makes you think about that expression, like you should never be the smartest person in the room, right? So like, especially if you’re starting to want to support something that is not your area of expertise, pooling together with a bunch of people who are all smart in different ways, right?

[00:17:27] Helps you make these strategic decisions But then I’m also thinking too about, you know, for folks who are listening, the importance of being around people who inspire you and challenge you and just how like that kind of raises your confidence and your energy.

[00:17:41] Like if I think about the equivalent in my world, which has been finding people who are as ambitious and confident and kind of unapologetic about wanting to make an impact as I am, how much that’s increased my confidence and my ambition. And so, getting with other people who share similar values, and share a similar desire to make an impact can allow you to make such a bigger impact, as a group and also individually.

[00:18:05] ‘Cause I think, you know, something that I see a lot with us in the kind of like caring, helping space is sometimes we tend to have relationships that are more people who maybe are doubting us. You know, like, oh, are you sure you should be doing that?

[00:18:17] Do you really know what you’re doing? Shouldn’t you just like work for an agency? because we tend to be people who take care of other people, we’re not always encouraged to like, take risks and like, go for what we really want and maybe it won’t work out. there can be this kind of like safeness.

[00:18:29] That, you know, were encouraged to, and I think as women too, we’re also encouraged to like, be safe. Like, are you sure you want to take that risk? Like, I know for me, when I started my private practice, my dad was like, Ooh, this could fail. I’m like, yeah, it could. That’s okay right, but just, surrounding yourself, those people, and I’m wondering for you, what has it been like to build this community?

[00:18:46] Like, what has it done for you personally to be involved with these groups of people?

[00:18:51] Marcia: Yeah, it’s interesting you bring up failure because in a lot of cases it is okay to fail. That’s what we kind of encourage with entrepreneurship, you want them to realize what doesn’t work so that they can figure out. What does, and that’s not going to be a straight line. It never is in anything in life,

[00:19:08] right. So, you know, just being able to see that, you know, one thing that I talk to entrepreneurs about a lot is if they can’t explain the problem that they’re solving in such a way that is so simple and so easy that, anybody could understand it, they’re really not going to do well in their role.

[00:19:26] Right, and so as they’re trying to explain it to me, I. I just started to be the person who just said, I don’t understand. Sometimes that’s hard for us, especially as women to say, oh, I don’t know. A lot of times we’ll just say, oh, okay, uh, I get it, but do you get it?

[00:19:39] And so I just finally started being the person who said, I absolutely do not get it. I don’t understand what you’re doing because a lot of times these entrepreneurs, they’re super good at whatever they

[00:19:49] Linzy: are doing.

[00:19:50] Yes.

[00:19:51] Marcia: and, but, and when they try to explain it, it’s so technical that you’re just like, ah, I have no idea what you’re even

[00:19:56] Linzy: totally.

[00:19:56] Marcia: And so I think that in a lot of cases, the more you can be, and I think maybe that comes with age too. The more you can be humble about it and just say, hey, I just need you to explain this a little bit differently. And it really has helped them also to be like, okay, I’m getting more traction with other people

[00:20:13] because you were willing to say, I don’t understand.

[00:20:16] Linzy: Yeah, and I see that actually as a gift that you’re giving that other person, because that is a very important form of feedback for them. That if, they’re not able to explain it clearly as you say, they’re not going to be able to get traction. Nobody’s going to get what they’re doing. So, you know, as women sometimes we can smile and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:20:30] This is happens a lot, with the folks that we support in our community around finances, right? It’s like your accountant is talking at you, you have no idea what they’re saying, but you don’t want to say that you don’t know because then you might look dumb. So then you’re just like, nodding ha, you know, like pained grin.

[00:20:44] but it doesn’t do anybody a favor at the end of the day, right? Because in that case, you don’t understand what you’re saying. Your accountant has basically just wasted their breath and in the case of what you’re talking about, if you don’t let them know that you don’t understand what they’re talking about, you’re actually not helping them succeed as a business,

[00:20:58] right? So it’s like a favor that you’re doing them there, I hear. it’s a favor to be humble, in the world when everybody wants to pretend they know everything. So for folks who are listening, who are realizing for the first time that there’s these pools of investors out there who do invest in startups and like small companies.

[00:21:18] I heard you mention at the beginning that most people who get funded are not women. Most companies that get invested in and most of the folks who are listening today are women. so what would you say to women who have a really good idea about the possibility of getting angel investors?

[00:21:33] Marcia: Well, first of all, I would say read my book because it’ll tell you a lot of ways that you can get investment without necessarily having to go to investors, right away. And a lot of times, bootstrapping and hitting those milestones. You know, angel investors are really only going to invest in companies that are very scalable, meaning that they can become very big.

[00:21:55] Angels want to see at least a 10 to 20 times return on their investment before they’ll make an investment.

[00:22:00] Right. It’s crazy,

[00:22:01] but there are a lot of other ways that you can, get funding. The other thing I’ll say is you know that number about how little money goes to women. The only way we’re going to change that number is to get more women investing.

[00:22:13] Linzy: Mm-hmm. Mm.

[00:22:13] Marcia: because it’s.

[00:22:14] It’s the people that look like us is who we help. How can we help those women? We can get more women writing checks and making the decisions, even if it starts small. My goal or vision in life, if I could wave a magic wand, would be to have so many more women investing so that it makes it easier for the female founders to be able to fundraise and build their companies because the women are scrappier.

[00:22:41] They’re taking money and they’re making a lot more with it, and they can get more revenue with less expenses. It’s just a proven fact. there’s been studies done.

[00:22:51] Linzy: Yes, yeah, I’ve, joked about this with folks before about, most men that I know, who have started companies think it’s really important to wrap their truck. That seems like a really important investment to them, whereas like, so few women that I know make those kinds of choices, like where, you know, as you say, much more like thoughtful about what will give you return.

[00:23:06] and so I do think that, a lot of the, whether it’s it’s nature or nurture, a lot of the ways that women tend to manage money are more thoughtful and strategic and considerate and therefore we are in a position to build very successful businesses.

[00:23:20] So for people who are listening who are possibly hearing about this for the first time, how can they get further into your world?

[00:23:27] How can they learn more about angel investing?

[00:23:30] Marcia: On my website, which is just simply my name, marciadawood. com, we can put it in the show notes, the exact spelling. I have a podcast tab, and on there I have playlists. So if you’re interested in a certain type of investing, if you want to hear from a certain type of investor, you can go there.

[00:23:48] The very first episode I ever did is me explaining what angel investing is in about seven minutes and it’s been the most popular of all, even though it’s very short, and it’s the first episode that ever came out. In a lot of cases, I’m just trying to educate. I have no real dog in the fight.

[00:24:05] I have a book, but I’m not trying to get people to invest in a fund or get people to invest in a certain company. I’m not a broker, anything like that. I make no suggestions, talk to your financial advisor, everything. I’m not making any recommendations.

[00:24:18] I just think people should know about it because we’re not talking about it enough. We’re seeing a lot of innovation that could be happening in our world, not happen, and it’s basically left metaphorically on the cutting room floor and I just I don’t want to keep seeing that happen. I want to keep getting more and more people to even know that this is something that exists.

[00:24:38] Linzy: Yeah, absolutely and you know, what I’m hearing is it really is an opportunity to kind of put your money where your mouth is you know, being an angel investor, which I know is something that resonates with the folks who listen. ’cause we’re always thinking about how to try to make the world better than it is right now.

[00:24:52] So this is a, a cool new avenue, that we can explore to make this happen. So thank you so much, Marcia, for joining me today. This has been, really illuminating.

[00:24:59] Marcia: Well thank you and if people want to get a free copy of chapter one of my book, they can just go to my website and it’s for free.

[00:25:06] Linzy: Awesome, great, thank you so much.

[00:25:07] Marcia: Thank you.

[00:25:19] Linzy: This conversation with Marcia has taught me a lot about, angel investing and some of the kind of structures around angel investing that I didn’t really know existed. I think I always thought that Angel investing was more of like an individually giving to a company. You know, like your friend’s cousin is starting a cool company, so you give them $20, 000 and you hope that it comes back to you,

[00:25:37] but it was interesting to learn today that there are, you know, a lot of structures around angel investing. You can go in with a group of people who have different expertise than you do to make good decisions as a group. You can entrust your money to somebody who will invest your money. For you, aligned with the values that your group has identified.

[00:25:56] So, you know, there it’s quite a developed world, is what I’m hearing today and something that stuck out to me as I was talking with Marcia, is the power and the importance of stepping up and owning your expertise, your competence, your skills, as a woman or a marginalized person in the world, and what that also does for the world, just representation of us stepping up and saying like,

[00:26:19] I know how to do things. I understand business. I can learn these things. Stretching ourselves. Not only does that expand us as people and make us more confident and grounded and more impactful as people, but as Marcia mentioned, people tend to support other businesses that look like them, It’s not great.

[00:26:39] It’s not a very pretty part of human nature, but the more that we have women and marginalized folks using our money to support businesses from women and marginalized folks, the more of those ventures are going to be successful, right? Like, we need to be in these spaces using our power to make great things happen in the world.

[00:26:59] And if we’re not in these spaces, then, you know, the folks who tend to be there are not going to support the things that we want to see. So really stepping up and using our power through money to make cool things happen is a very exciting prospect for me and something that, as Marcia mentioned, you don’t need to have a lot of money to do.

[00:27:15] If you go in with a group of people, that can be something that you pull your money together to make a really neat company happen which I can’t even think of what they would be ’cause it’s kind of innovation that’s not really what I do but, uh, very, very illuminating today, this conversation with Marcia.

[00:27:30] You can follow me on Instagram at Money Nuts and Bolts and if you are enjoying the podcast, I will ask you if you’ll leave me a review, you can relieve a review on Apple Podcast, but you can also leave reviews on Spotify. We have a link in the show notes that if you click on it, it will take you to the review platform that’s actually compatible with you.

[00:27:48] So for so long I have tried and wanted to review podcasts on Apple Podcasts, and I simply cannot ’cause I’m not an Apple user, but yeah, our link in the show notes now, if you are not an Apple user and you’ve been like, Lindsay, I cannot review your podcast. I’m not an Apple user. The link in our show notes is now this cool link that will lead you to be able to leave a review on whatever platform is actually compatible with your device.

[00:28:11] So if you’ve tried to leave a review before, and you are not an Apple Podcast user, click on the link in the show notes. It will give you the options where you can leave us a review, Leave us, you know, a starred review, and that is a great way for other people to find us hear about the podcast. I recently looked at our

[00:28:26] reviews and we have 90 5 star reviews, which makes my inner achiever very happy. Obviously, at some point I will not get a five star review, but I was also reading the reviews recently, and it actually was tearful. It’s really moving, hearing the impact that this podcast has so if you have a story to share about the impact of the podcast, please leave me a review.

[00:28:46] I want to hear about it and it helps other folks to hear about it too. Thank you so much for joining me today.