[00:00:00] Liane: It starts with recognizing that your practice revenue is your income, right? It’s not separate. And the other piece of it is a mindset shift, right? I want to start thinking about every dollar that’s coming in and recognizing that this dollar should be working for you as well as for your practice.
[00:00:30] Linzy: Welcome to the Money Skills for Therapists podcast, where we answer this question. How can therapists and health practitioners go from money shame and confusion to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Lindsay Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of the course Money Skills for Therapists.
[00:00:50] Hello and welcome back to the podcast. Today’s guest is Liane Wood. Liane is the owner and CEO of Build Your Private Practice, which is a Canadian practice-building company.
[00:01:01] They’ve been helping health practitioners launch, grow, and scale private practices since 2016. And today, Liane and I got into the topic of magic money. It’s the magical thinking that we can have about money as practitioners in private practice. That the money is not real, that it’s easy to spend, and what this ends up looking like is, even though you’re making good money in your practice, it seems to all disappear and there’s not much left at the end of the day to go home to you.
[00:01:33] So today, Liane and I dig into what this looks like, some possible reasons for this, you know, places that this comes from, and what to do if you find yourself overspending in your private practice, maybe experiencing some of this magic money thinking, here is my conversation with Liane Wood.
[00:01:50] That’s all for this video. If you did, please the like button and subscribe.
[00:02:05] Linzy: So Liane, welcome to the podcast.
[00:02:07] Liane: Thank you for having me.
[00:02:09] Linzy: Yeah, I’m excited to have you on. You are a fellow Canadian consultant, builder, and supporter. Can you tell folks a little bit about the work that you did before, we dig into all the stuff we want to talk about today.?
[00:02:22] Liane: For sure. Yeah. I’m a registered psychotherapist, and I also coach and mentor therapists and mental health practitioners to build thriving, successful private practices. And my company is called Build Your Private Practice. And we’ve got, yeah, courses and coaching and all that type of stuff to help therapists focus on the business side of their practice and understand the business side of running a private practice.
[00:02:46] Linzy: Absolutely. And, it’s great that you are a Canadian doing this work because I know some things about Canadian business are different than American business, and, we love our American friends. But also often I’ve had folks say to me that they’re really glad that I’m Canadian because there’s some, there are cultural differences, there are tax differences like there are specific things about being Canadian.
[00:03:07] So it’s really neat that you’re able to offer that very specific Canadian context around practice building.
[00:03:11] Liane: Thank you. Yeah. That was important for me as well to provide that, background and that context that, you know, this is coming from a Canadian lens or perspective. And, again, yeah. I think there’s a lot of crossover with our American neighbors, and there are some differences.
[00:03:28] Linzy: Yeah, for sure. So what we’re going to talk about today though, Americans, don’t turn off this podcast. We’re going to talk about things that apply to everybody. You talk about this, concept of therapists treating money like, like magic money, the revenue coming into their practice. Can you tell me what more you mean about this magic money concept and why that can be so problematic for therapists?
[00:03:50] Liane: Yeah, I wasn’t quite sure what else to call it besides magic money or maybe monopoly money, but I like magic money better. And it’s just in working with therapists and talking with them about, you know, the business side of their practice. And, oftentimes, you know, that spills over into the financial side and this business idea.
[00:04:10] It’s not a conscious idea. I think it’s like kind of running under the surface of consciousness, that the money coming into our practices isn’t real money. So this money, you know, we do client sessions, and then the money comes in for those sessions, and then therapists treat it like, Oh, I can go and spend it on this, that, and the other thing for my practice.
[00:04:31] But then at the end of the day, when they need to take money out of their practice for their income, there isn’t enough there to cover living
[00:04:40] Expenses, right? And so then there is this, this scarcity mentality or this lack mentality that is coming in. Well, I can’t afford… you know, to get the good groceries or I can’t afford the vacation, or, these important pieces.
[00:04:53] And I’m like, okay, but when I look at, you know, their overall revenue and what is coming into their practice and what’s the talk my way, you’ve got a really good practice. You’ve got good revenue coming in. And so we just need to, you know, tweak a few things.
[00:05:08] Linzy: There’s a couple of things that come to mind about that because I’d like to dig into and theorize a little bit about what is this, and why is it. One thing that comes to mind for me right away is that therapists are nerds.
[00:05:18] We love what we love, right? And so that’s part of how therapy works. I, I think it says good things about us that we want to invest is like when the money comes in the door, and you see money in your bank account and you’re like, Oh, but I also want to learn about, you know, sensory-motor psychotherapy or, Oh, now I can do that cool conference in Minnesota.
[00:05:37] The part of us that gets excited and just wants to know everything, and be the best possible therapist, probably kind of gets its hands on the money before the other parts of us that are like, oh right, I have a mortgage. My child needs to go to school, which can be less fun stuff, right? Like it’s harder to hold excitement about everyday expenses, and the good groceries, although the good groceries are good.
[00:05:58] That’s one thing that I see is, and one theory that I would have is like, you know, the parts of us that, you know, get excited, but also don’t feel good enough, need that constant, constantly need to be learning to prove ourselves that we’re good enough and constantly aware of our deficits. So there’s, there’s a duality there, but that part that always wants to learn more and improve can be deceived or delusional.
[00:06:18] That’s it’s money, that it’s all about that. And forget about the other responsibilities, and obligations that belong to that money.
[00:06:28] Liane: Exactly. Yeah, you’ve got it.
[00:06:31] Linzy: So that’s one thing that I think of. What are some other things that you’ve observed that you think lead to, this magic of money thinking?
[00:06:39] Liane: I do think it is coming from that, like what you just hit on, you know, that I need, I need this for my practice. And then I think that you know, the other area that I will see therapists kind of spending a lot of money on, but not necessarily getting the return on is marketing. And, a lot of therapists are uncomfortable with the idea of selling themselves and marketing
.[00:07:01] So, I don’t want to do marketing, but they recognize that they need marketing for their practice to grow. And because they’re uncomfortable with it. They’ll just pay somebody else to do it
[00:07:15] because it’s uncomfortable for them. They don’t like it. They don’t take the time to research, okay, well, what marketing is going to be effective.
[00:07:25] And they, may miss that. Nobody knows your practice the way you do. Nobody knows your ideal client the way you do. And so just hiring someone to do marketing may not be effective because the person you’ve hired isn’t you, doesn’t know you, and doesn’t know your ideal client.
[00:07:46] And they’re… it’s not bad. They’re probably doing their very best to market your practice for you, but they need a lot of input.
[00:07:54] from you. And that’s something that therapists, you know, like, like the whole marketing piece, they kind of run away from. And so it’s easier, easier, you know, air brackets to, to throw money at somebody and say, you market my practice.
[00:08:08] But then what happens is because there isn’t enough input from the therapist into the marketing, it’s oftentimes not nearly as effective as it could be and that’s money down the drain.
[00:08:18] Linzy: It is and I have seen therapists pay 20, 000 for a website and marketing package. But when I look at their website, it’s not hitting on the things that their ideal client is going to be looking for.
[00:08:32] Liane: Right.
[00:08:33] Linzy: So, and that’s very much true, as you say, folks who are outside of our space don’t understand. Mindset our potential clients are when they come, right? Like when your potential client lands on your website, they don’t want to hear about you and your credentials. They want to see their language reflected in them. They want to know that you get them, like all of these pieces that being in the field and being able to put ourselves in the perspective in, in the shoes of our clients, we could think through like, Oh, of course, like I need to share these things, but somebody who’s in marketing.
[00:09:04] They don’t know your ideal client’s motivation and where they’re at emotionally when they’re looking for you. And, and also I would say too, how perhaps little bandwidth they have to process whether or not you’re the right person for them before they’re like, no, I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m just going to move on.
[00:09:18] Right? Because people, if they’re in pain, too, any kind of friction will get in the way, but folks in marketing might be used to selling to people who are interested and excited and want to buy something, not people who are in distress, you know, and like looking for somebody who
[00:09:32] gets them. It’s very different. It’s very different, but you know, there’s that thing of you don’t know what you don’t know. And so what I’m hearing you say here is, you know, the temptation to throw money at something without necessarily thinking through, is this the best use of my money, right? So you’re maybe putting a bunch of money into marketing.
[00:09:49] It’s not necessarily going to be very effective if the person doesn’t get your ideal clients and who you’re trying to reach.
[00:09:56] Liane: Exactly
[00:09:58] Linzy: Yeah, and then another piece that I think about, and that I talk about in my course, which I think hits on this, this magic money thinking is in, I believe it’s module two of my course. I’m not sure. I’ve got a lesson, which is called your business money is not your money. It feels like an unfun conversation to have to have with people.
[00:10:16] But it’s something that sticks out to people because people who have this kind of magical thinking are like, Oh no, she’s right. Right. But I think, too, when we start to earn, it can feel like, Oh, my gosh, I’m rich.
[00:10:30] Linzy: you know, in your household, you’ve never had 10, 000 showing up a month before, or 8, 000.
[00:10:36] And so, when you start to think about that as your money, we can very quickly get into like, “I’m rich. I don’t even need to think about if I can afford this! Of course, I can afford this! Look at all this money.” But we don’t think about, the business expenses, like just the overhead. We don’t think about the tax obligations.
[00:10:51] We don’t think about needing to leave some money in the bank account in case next month is quieter. And then as you say, when it comes down to your, your paycheck, suddenly there isn’t enough money for you to be okay at home, because all of these other jobs have had to be done by the money first.
[00:11:05] And if you’re paying yourself last, which can be the default, you, and your household, end up taking the hit for this kind of lack of boundaries with your money.
[00:11:16] Liane: Absolutely.
[00:11:18] Linzy: What are some other traps that you see therapists fall into that lead them to overspend Like we just talked here about the kind of like throwing your money at a problem, trying to get somebody else to kind of do the work that you don’t want to do. What other traps do you see therapists falling into that lead to overspending?
[00:11:34] Liane: Maybe another trap would be subscribing to services or software that they think they should have. Right? Those must have practice management tools when you know, something that’s simpler or more cost effective would work just as well. Right? So, if you’re online for any amount of time and sort of, you know, searching for therapist tools, there are so many different subscriptions and tools that, you can, you know, like with all the bells and whistles and this is fancy and it’s going to automatically send, I don’t know, we’ll pick on assessments.
[00:12:07] It’s going to automatically send these assessments. It’s going to send them back to you. It’s going to look pretty. It’s, you know, all these things and you think, oh, wow, that would make my practice amazing. And, and so we sign up for it and then. Do we use it? Right? And, are we using it the way that we were imagining, what I find often is that there is no check or balance, right?
[00:12:28] We will sign up for a subscription or we’ll buy a tool that’s supposed to be helpful for us in our practice. And then either we forget about it. It’s kind of like a gym membership. You know how people sign up for the gym membership and they go for like three weeks and then they’re like, eh, I don’t want to work out.
[00:12:42] Linzy: Yes
[00:12:43] Liane: Then two years later, they’re still paying this monthly
[00:12:45] Linzy: I got to go to the gym and cancel that membership.
[00:12:49] Liane: It’s the same type of idea, right? But we’re doing it in our practices with different tools and, and different things that way. And so it’s another trap that I, I think that you know, we can fall into is just thinking that, Oh, this is, this is going to help me, or this is going to be good for my practice.
[00:13:07] And so we buy it and then we don’t use it.
[00:13:10] Linzy: And I’m hearing like a couple, like almost two different pieces in that, right? It’s like, the first is getting something that maybe you don’t need, it’s shiny objects. Again, this is a kind of shiny object in a different zone, right? Rather than the education shiny object that we were talking about.
[00:13:25] This is the tool that is going to make my life so much easier, so much better, which of course is what good marketing promises us. Right? Your marriage will improve because of this tool that you have in your business. Like, you know, prompts the moon and the stars. But the other thing that I’m hearing here is then not being in touch with the fact of like, Oh, I’m still paying for this thing.
[00:13:41] Have I used this in the last three months? So losing track of what we’re spending on, and not being in touch with where the money is going every month. And I will say the subscription-based model that is now the default for software is so good at playing on this weakness that we have as humans.
[00:13:59] So good at it. And like all these things that you used to be able to just buy, used to be able to just own software, now you pay for it every single month. And the math on it is like, we pay so much more now for these software than we did, you know, five years ago. But it takes advantage of this vulnerability that we have of people just doing something and then just kind of forgetting that we did it, right?
[00:14:22] Or like not stopping to reassess and think, huh, do I need to make a change here? What is coming out of my credit card? Wait a second, that 15 charge doesn’t seem like a lot, I haven’t used that software in eight months. And I’m sure that a lot of software that is on subscription, like SaaS. I bet that half the money they make is on software that is not used, if not more.
[00:14:45] People just forgot that they have something.
[00:14:47] Liane: I think that’s highly possible.
[00:14:50] Linzy: Yeah. So just really that, like not going back and being with your numbers, seeing what’s happening.
[00:14:57] Liane: Just thinking about, you know, how useful is this? You know, like gym membership is not what a therapist would do, but, you know, like saying like, am I in better shape now because I’ve been using this, right? Like, has this software or whatever in my practice, has it saved me time by making me more efficient?
[00:15:14] Like I thought it was going to? Am I actually using This to its fullest potential, or did I get it and then go, Oh, that looks like a lot of work to learn. And so we don’t learn it, but we’re paying for it. And I’m laughing about this, Lindsay, because like guilty, right? Like I, I’m not saying this, you know, to like, I, like, I’m talking about myself here as much as I am about anyone else.
[00:15:40] Right. I’ve done this. I’ve done all of this.
[00:15:43] Linzy: And I will say, I was also laughing with familiarity. I was just muted. But yes, it’s like, this is such a human thing. Right? And I can think very clearly of examples of things that I was like, Oh, that’s amazing. That’s going to change my business which I never used. Right. And this is, I think also the peril of, Instagram ads, and Facebook ads, which I use in my own business.
[00:16:01] So like, I’m, I’m not, you know, ethically exempt from this, but certainly the kinds of things that seem like a really good idea at 9 pm when you’re tired and you’re scrolling on your, your phones maybe not always the best purchases for your business. Yeah, like really stopping to think, as you say, can I use this?
[00:16:18] Am I using this? Is this having the effect that it was supposed to have? And reassessing, you know, if this is something you want to keep paying for because the default is it’s going to keep paying that company forever until you cancel those subscriptions. You will pay for them until the day you die.
[00:16:37] So we have to stop and interrupt that. How can therapists then shift their mindset around some of these pieces? Move away from this like, you know, magic money thinking into being more intentional about how they grow their practice and manage their money.
[00:16:52] Liane: I think it starts with recognizing that your practice revenue is your income, right? It’s not separate, and the other piece of it is, is a mindset shift, right? Start thinking about every dollar that’s coming in and recognizing that this dollar should be working for you as well as for your
[00:17:16] Practice, your money should be working for you and, and getting that mindset there, right? And so I, you know, think about getting clear about what you need versus what feels nice to have.
[00:17:35] And so, you know, kind of going through your expenses and evaluating your expenses.
[00:17:41] And we were just talking about subscriptions. So, you know, really asking yourself, is this subscription really necessary? Right? If you’re talking about a certification or another modality, do I actually need this, or do I already have a certification or modality, this different one than the one that I’m looking at taking this course on, do I already have something in my practice that helps me when I’m working with people with X, Y, Z?
[00:18:09] And so, you know, if I have something already that works when I’m dealing with XYZ with clients, then do I need that new modality or certification? Or is it that I want it, right? And so we need to be able to prioritize, you know, what we’re spending our money on, looking at this as an investment.
[00:18:30] Right. And when we do an investment, you want to return on income,
[00:18:36] and that return can be, you know, if it’s a subscription to software that’s going to save you time, it’s going to make you more efficient than it should be doing that.
[00:18:45] Linzy: Yes.
[00:18:46] Liane: right? If it’s marketing, it should be bringing you new clients, like enough new clients that you’re making money, right?
[00:18:54] If you’re spending 5 on marketing like you should be making 15,
[00:18:58] Linzy: Yes, and that’s that return on investment equation, right? So stopping to think about, I’m hearing, you know, first of all, like slowing down and asking yourself, do I need things before you buy them? But if you are investing in things, are they working? If you’re paying for the software to get time back, are you getting time back and turning that into something else of value, whether it’s money or whether it’s just like, this allows me to go home for dinner every night, which is
[00:19:23] invaluable, right? So it’s not always, you know, I think the return on investment isn’t always just financial. Sometimes it’s energetic or emotional, but yeah, are you getting something back from this purchase? Is it delivering value to you? Is it an investment or is this just an expense?
[00:19:37] Just money going out, out the door? Yeah, that like slowing down and being unintentional, and thinking, too, about the first piece that we were talking about, you were just referencing of, do I need this training, you know, like, or do I just want it? Something else that comes to mind for me is like, where’s that coming from?
[00:19:54] Right? Like, is it excitement, but do you, are you maybe prone to kind of like a manic excitement that runs out, you know, the gas runs out of the tank before you get the benefit of the thing? Yeah. Noticing if that’s a pattern, is this that you don’t feel good enough as a person in general, and you’re constantly trying to do things to bolster it?
[00:20:11] Is it that you have one client that you feel like you need this training for, but maybe they’re not a good fit for you? Like, you should be referring out?
[00:20:20] Liane: You maybe don’t even want to work them…
[00:20:21] Linzy: A hundred percent, right? So like slowing down to ask yourself: what is this? Cause I think too, when we have money, it’s so tempting to throw money at pain.
[00:20:29] and just be like, Oh, well, this will make me feel better. Like I’ll feel good enough if I do this other $4,000 certification, or if I could just figure out how to work with this person, then everything would be better. And when you have money, it’s easy to just throw money at those things, but you might not be getting to the root of the issue.
[00:20:45] Liane: So slowing down that intention piece. Any final thoughts on these pieces about magic money, spending, intentionality, I think it’s, you know, we’re talking a lot on, on the practice side of things, which I think is important, but I, I also think it’s equally important for us to be setting aside money for ourselves, right? Whether it’s, It’s self-care, life enhancements, you know, whether it’s taking a much-needed vacation or just giving yourself the financial flexibility to work fewer hours, right?
[00:21:16] When we’re intentional with our revenue, it should be, positively impacting, both our practice as well as our personal lives, right? We want to be able to support a lifestyle that keeps us energized and balanced so that we’re not burning out as therapists.
[00:21:34] Linzy: Yeah. Absolutely. That is, ultimately what our businesses should be doing for us, is giving us a life that we enjoy.
[00:21:43] For our clients’ benefit, so we can keep doing the work, but for us, because this is… this is your life, right? So make sure that the money’s taking care of you. Thank you so much, Liane, for coming on the podcast today.
[00:21:54] If folks want to hear more about you, want to find you, follow you, learn from you, where can they find you?
[00:22:01] Liane: For sure. Our website is buildyourprivatepractice. Ca and we’ve also got a very thriving, energetic Facebook group on Facebook so if you search groups and search for Build Your Private Practice, you’ll find us that way.
[00:22:15] Linzy: Wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, Liane.
[00:22:18] Liane: Thank you for having me.
[00:22:34] Linzy: If you find yourself experiencing this magic money thinking in your own business, I hope there are ideas in this podcast that you can use to stop and investigate and be with your relationship to money. Start to be curious about where some of this magic money thinking is coming up. And as Liane said, ultimately think about where can this money serve you better.
[00:22:56] Does this money need to be serving you in your business? If so, what are the things that you can invest in your business that will get you a return? Or should this money be coming home to you and your family? So often our businesses and our therapist selves get so many more resources than we give ourselves at home.
[00:23:13] And that, that is not fair to ourselves. That’s not fair to our families. And ultimately that’s not sustainable. So lots of ideas here on where you can get started if you find yourself overspending, or if you have this magic money thinking in your practice, thanks so much to Liane for bringing these ideas to us today.
[00:23:30] If you’re enjoying the podcast, it’s so helpful if you leave me a review. You can leave me a review on the Apple podcast. You can share what you enjoy about the podcast or a favorite episode. And also tell a friend while you’re at it. Why not both? Why not leave a review and tell a friend? Those are really helpful ways for other therapists and health practitioners to find us and be part of these conversations.
[00:23:48] Thanks for joining me today.