[00:00:00] Linzy: Hello and welcome back to another Feelings and Finances episode of the Money Skills for Therapists podcast. These are our short and sweet Friday episodes where I answer your questions, the therapists and health practitioners and coaches who listened to the Money Skills for Therapists podcast. Today’s question is from our very own marketing coordinator here at Money Nuts and Bolts, Jade Mortar.

[00:00:21] Here’s Jade’s question.

[00:00:22] Jade: Hey, Linzy, it’s Jade with a question for your Feelings and Finances series. Your work has helped me realize that I am very financially avoidant and that’s been already a very transformative experience for me. So thank you for that. And I’m now in the process of facing my real numbers, which has been quite uncomfortable, but definitely necessary.

[00:00:46] And I need to start thinking about what my next steps are, and start making strategic decisions, but I’ve realized that I can’t really make these strategic decisions without consulting some financial experts in some very niche areas. And I find the anticipation to have these conversations to be very overwhelming.

[00:01:14] I feel like they bring up a lot of rejection sensitivity for me. There seems to be a big difference between me looking at the numbers myself, and gathering up the numbers to show somebody else. And so I’ve noticed that there’s a pattern in me avoiding these particular types of tasks. And I’m, I’m getting to the point where I’m like, Jade, you can’t really move forward without having these conversations.

[00:01:43] I really appreciate that you have this emotional approach to talking about money, which I think is what makes this more accessible for me. But I worry about working with financial experts who might not share that same sensitivity. And so I’m wondering if you have any tips for navigating these conversations or tools to help me shift my mindset so that these conversations feel more manageable and safe.

[00:02:06] I really appreciate all of the work that you do, and I really look forward to hearing what you have to say. Thanks, Linzy.

[00:02:14] Linzy: Hi, Jade. thank you. For this question. This is a great question. And definitely one that I can personally relate to when I think about some of my experiences with working with financial professionals who don’t have a lot of emotional literacy or intelligence. and will just, you know, say just dah, dah, dah… And what they’re asking you feels nearly impossible.

[00:02:34] Or what I noticed too, is, we can have this kind of checkout response, too, where we stopped being able to comprehend, and,\ listen to what somebody’s saying to us when, you know, when we’re triggered. So you mentioned this rejection sensitivity as being something that comes up for you, you know, speaking to financial professionals.

[00:02:50] And when I think it’s financial professionals, I don’t know exactly who you’re referring to, but I’m, I’m going to guess it’s like folks at banks, you know, financial planner, accountant, you know, those are usually the folks that we have to interface with on a regular basis when it comes to our finances.

[00:03:02] So the rejection sensitivity. Something that’s really important for us to ground in when we’re speaking to these professionals is that their job is to serve us. Like we are the customer, right? So it’s not about us appeasing them. And what I notice is it’s easy for us to fall into this, either like kind of a teacher student dynamic where we feel like we have to do a good job.

[00:03:27] We have to be good enough. We have to come with like all of our information perfectly prepared. You know, we have to perform in order to deserve to work with them or be able to work with them. And we can feel like failures if we don’t feel like we’re doing what we’re supposed to do. So there’s that dynamic that can come up that kind of teacher, student dynamic where we feel like this, the student.

[00:03:45] but also, of course, there’s the dynamic that comes up where we can feel like, like that child, our vulnerable child self can come up, and feel rejected and not good enough in all of these stories. And, you know, we all carry this kind of vulnerability and baggage because we were all children at some point, and we were all students at some point.

[00:04:02] And you know, whatever other mix is in there for you, Jade. Part of it is centering yourself in the fact that you are an adult coming into these conversations. And this is a person who is actually trying to sell you something. You are the customer, right? And if they are not able to meet your needs, then they are actually losing the sale, right?

[00:04:25] The power in the relationship in terms of the actual container of the relationship, which is a professional relationship where, you know, you are either paying them for a certain amount of their time or paying them for a service, or you’re agreeing to buy something from them. That power is actually yours.

[00:04:38] It’s not theirs, right? So as much as we can have this vulnerability come up, and this fear of failure, not being good enough come up, it is misplaced because you’re actually the one who has the power to walk, and to say, you know what, actually, I’m going to take my taxes elsewhere, or I’m going to go talk to a different bank or a different mortgage broker or whatever kind of professional it is.

[00:05:01] And it’s important to stay connected to that, that you are actually the one who has the money that they get paid, and you can choose whether or not you actually want to have a working relationship with this person. Right? So that’s the first thing is, is really grounding in the fact that you are the customer who gets to decide whether or not this is a relationship that works for you.

[00:05:20] When you meet with somebody, it doesn’t mean that they’re the person you have to stick with. You have the right to shop around and talk to different people. You have the right to come to a conversation and say, these are the kinds of things that I need as a client. You know, I need you to be able to explain things to me a couple of times.

[00:05:35] I need things written down or printed out. You know, I need us to write down my next instructions, or I need you to have resources to share with me. Can you do that? Right. They’re serving you, not the other way around. And because we have so much vulnerability that can come up around math and finances and so much kid stuff, it’s easy to lose track of that.

[00:05:54] But finding a way to really hold that coming into these interactions, whether it’s just reminding yourself that you’re interviewing them. And you can choose to go interview 10 other people if you want. if somebody has a mannerism or way of communicating that’s very triggering to you, then they’re not the right person for you.

[00:06:12] Right? We always have to still temper our expectationsof what we’re going to get from a financial professional. Like I remember when I worked in domestic violence, you know, some of the education work that we would have to do with our clients is like, your lawyer is not a counselor.

[00:06:23] They’re not going to be great at listening. They’re probably not going to be super empathetic. They’re listening for different information when you’re telling them stories. And they’re trying to collect, you know, the legal kind of evidence and pieces to be a successful lawyer. Right? So it’s the same with financial professionals.

[00:06:37] We can’t expect them to be counselors in terms of their level of emotional intelligence. if they had that level of emotional intelligence, they probably would have gone more into the therapy field. But we can set for ourselves our expectations of what is workable? What is the kind of communication that is good enough?

[00:06:55] Or when I walk out of a meeting, what is the feeling that tells me, okay, there’s enough trust here, or there’s enough sense of connection that this is a workable relationship. This is somebody that I’d like to keep moving forward with and learning how to produce information and talk about things that I don’t understand, or not.

[00:07:15] You are allowed to meet with somebody and decide that you don’t want to work with them. The ball is in your court, and the power is in your court, on that. And so staying connected to that as you’re coming to these conversations is very, very important.

[00:07:27] I will also pick up on a second part a second aspect to your question that I think can be important for folks like us as well, which is it is important, too, to put the supports in place for yourself and ask that financial professional for the supports to support you in your executive functioning around these issues, right?

[00:07:45] For folks who are listening, you know, if you have like ADHD or if you find yourself struggling with executive functioning in other ways, or if you just know that money is stressful, so you’re probably going to check out, like your executive functioning is probably going to leave the room, then

[00:08:00] preparing yourself to be as resourced as you can in terms of having a clear list of what they’re looking for from you, going in with your questions written down in advance. This is also helpful for doctors, of course. Making sure you have your actual questions written out and letting yourself refer to those questions and say, okay, I’m looking at my list.

[00:08:19] I have two more questions for you. Or letting yourself take notes in that meeting, or asking them to take notes… Doing those things that are going to also support your executive functioning and keeping that thinking brain online is also an important support for you, but it’s also an important support in that relationship to make sure that you can fulfill the things that they’re asking you, right?

[00:08:38] And you actually remember when you leave the meeting, right, they asked me for this particular document. So that’s another practical piece that can help to navigate these kinds of relationships. Because if we tend to have emotions come up that are going to block our ability to think clearly, giving yourself the resources to kind of expand your brain.

[00:08:55] I did a course with Cal Newport last year where they talked about this idea of writing things down as a way to actually expand your cognitive abilities. It’s kind of like you’re taking some of your thoughts and expanding them outside of your brain, therefore expanding what you can hold at one time. So, taking notes on your phone or a piece of paper, bringing questions in, is also a great way to help to keep that thinking brain online and keep you connected to the information part of the interaction, if you know that you might get some, some activation and some triggers happening there, just around the vulnerability of talking about money with somebody.

[00:09:27] So I hope that those two pieces, Jade, can be helpful resources for you as you go about navigating, digging into the things that you’ve been avoiding. Thank you so much for submitting your question today. If you, like Jade, have a question that you would like me to answer on one of these Feelings and Finances episodes of the podcast, it is super simple.

[00:09:46] You just need to head over to our podcast page. You’ll see a recording link just a little bit down when you scroll down the page. All you need to do is press record, share who you are, a little bit of context if you’d like, and share your question. And I would be happy to answer it on one of these episodes.

[00:10:01] Thank you so much for joining me for a Feelings and Finances episode of the Money Skills for Therapists podcast today.