Meet Dr. Charissa Pizarro

Charissa: I know I need to let go, but how? And what is the strategy to do that? And just talking to you, I’m having all these insights Simultaneously. So I was like, But there is no use for that, and that’s something that I have to sort of take in. And I know that’ll take time, that I don’t have use for those coping mechanisms. 

Linzy:  Welcome to the Money Skills for Therapists podcast, where we answer this question: how can therapists and health practitioners go from money shame and confusion to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach, and creator of the course Money Skills for Therapists.

Hello and welcome back to the podcast. Today we have a coaching episode with one of our podcast listeners, Dr. Charissa Pizarro. Charissa is a clinical psychologist based in New Jersey. She specializes in trauma work and she works full time but also has a part-time private practice on the side and is thinking about moving into full-time private practice, but finds that it’s difficult to think about doing that because she struggles with her fee.

So today, Charissa and I get into the challenges that she has with actually owning her expertise. She has more than 20 years of clinical experience, um, but has a hard time holding her boundaries around the fees that she set for herself, both clinically and then with workshops and presentations that she does, and we talk about the challenges with that and it’s linked to intergenerational trauma Linking way back to two generations ago her family experiencing genocide and a dictatorship. The rich conversation here of getting into that kind of like a two-pronged piece of that, you know, the top end of kind of learning skills and numbers and owning what we want and the skills that we have but that on the other end trauma, like true trauma, that gets in the way of our relationship with money and makes it hard to do what we want to do With our lives here is my conversation with Dr. Charissa Pizarro

Linzy: So Charissa, welcome to the podcast.

Charissa: Thank you for having me. I’m very excited to be here today.

Linzy: Yeah, I’m excited to have you here. So Charissa, in terms of what you want to focus on during this conversation together today, what are you bringing that you want us to talk about on this podcast recording?

Charissa: So I do part-time private practice, and my end goal would be to do full-time private practice and to value the services that I bring to the table for clients, all sorts of clients. I have difficulty sort of, for lack of a better word, pricing my sessions or my services, like a presentation, for example. There are some very, very deep roots that sort of, that’s connected to. So maybe unpack that a little. I know we’re, we only have a certain amount of time, but that would be great if you could, help me with that.

Linzy: Absolutely. Yeah. Cause I’m curious, you know, starting in the now, tell me about what it is about pricing. What happens to you around pricing when you’re trying to price your different offers and services? 

Charissa: So I have 20 years… Gosh, I’m so old. I have more than 20 years of experience. I’m a clinical, licensed clinical psychologist. I’m also a play therapist. And then I find myself that clients are negotiating the prices with me. I was like, okay, so we’ll leave it at X, X amount.

And it’s not the price that I deserve. And I’m very quick to say, if you can’t pay this, cause I see some people for pro bono and that’s fine, but maybe I do more of that than I should. And it financially really takes a toll on me sometimes.

Linzy: Okay. So are you… Right now you’re in part-time private practice?

Charissa: Right. And I work full-time. 

Linzy: Okay, yes. In your private practice, are you taking insurance? Are you out of pocket?

Charissa: I was taking insurance. And it wasn’t working out. Sometimes I wouldn’t get paid. I would get paid like 25 for a session. I was like, I, I can’t. Like financially, I just couldn’t. So then I took myself off the panel and I just do, I just have a set fee and the clients pay that.

Linzy: Okay. Okay. Or, or they don’t pay that, is what I’m hearing. Mm hmm. Um, I’m curious, what is the fee that you have set?

Charissa: So  I’m so proud of myself because I raised it recently. Especially after the pandemic with all this stuff that’s going on. So it was a hundred and 175… Anyway, well, what it is now, it’s for the intake, it’s 250 and then 200 for individual sessions.

Linzy: Okay. Yeah. And when you say that, you know, folks start negotiating… What is the conversations that happen? Like, is it when you start working with somebody that they’ll try to negotiate you down on the fee or, yeah. Tell me what that looks like.

Charissa: So for some people, before we start sessions, I say this is the fee… I’ll give you an example of somebody I have in mind. Oh, but I can’t pay that, Can we do this? And then I feel bad because I’m like probably overly empathic. And I was like, oh, okay, what can you pay? And you know, we’re not bartering at a store… So I end up shortchanging myself is the bottom line. 

Linzy: Sure. Yes. Okay. Okay. And of the folks that you’re working with now, how many of them are paying you your full fee?

Charissa: So I have about five, well, one of them is on Medicare, so that’s, that’s separate. So let’s say out of the four, I would say two, so 50%.

Linzy: Okay. And then the other two

Charissa: sounds like a lot when I say that.

Linzy: Well, yeah, there you go. 50%. That’s great. So the 50 percent… of the other two, I’m curious what fees have you set with them? The two that are not paying the full fee. Yeah.

Charissa: I have somebody at 125.

Linzy: Okay. Yeah.

Charissa: Which is also coincidentally almost 50%.

Linzy: Yes, that’s true.

Charissa: I didn’t realize that actually.

Linzy: Okay. One at 125 and what’s the other one? 

Charissa: There’s the two people that pay the full fee and then the other person It’s 175, I would say.

Linzy: Okay. Okay. So, still less. Closer to those two, but for you then.  I am curious. What is it that happens when somebody challenges the fee? I’m hearing there’s maybe this empathic response that comes out. What happens to you when somebody says, “Oh, I can’t pay that.”

Charissa: very, we had food, but we had very limited resources. So I know what it feels like not to be able to pay for something, and I feel like therapy everyone should have access to it. So a part of me is like, oh, I know what this is.

Let me try to help this person. But then, oftentimes in the process, as I’ve discovered, you know, throughout my 20 years, this, it sort of works against me, and I’m trying to, to work on that.

Linzy: And how does it work against you?

Charissa: Well, oftentimes I have to do three jobs… so many more clients than I would otherwise have to do, and then I deal with trauma and childhood trauma, and it takes an emotional toll on me as well. It’s a lot. It’s a lot.

Linzy: Yeah. That’s the work that I used to do as well. It’s very heavy work. You can’t just do infinite amounts of that work by any stretch.

Charissa: And sometimes I do. Because that’s what I do in my full time as well… so I’m just trauma here, trauma there. It’s terrible. I mean, I try to make light of it, but it’s, it’s hard.

Linzy: It is. It’s very heavy work and, with this Carissa tell me where do you? Want to be like as you’ve started, because I know you’ve done some work before on money, you mentioned off mic as we were chatting before, where do you want to be in terms of your private practice? How many clients you see what is that picture of a more sustainable version of this work for you? 

Charissa: In an ideal world, I would have… I don’t know, maybe five clients a day or some presentations. Yes. You know, sprinkle throughout the week and I would have enough money to vacation, 

Linzy: Okay. 

Charissa: and to be able to take that time knowing that I’m not going to get paid if I were in full-time private practice because I love to vacation…

Linzy: yes.

Charissa: And my daughter is going to college in two years, so I also need to set some money aside continue to set some money aside, but I feel like I need to set even more aside now

Linzy: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there’s the vacation priority money for college for your daughter. Five clients a day. How many clients a week? Okay.

Charissa: I’d be okay with 20 to 25, but if I could supplement with a vacation, not a vacation, 

Linzy: Hmm. That was an interesting slip. 

Charissa:  If I could supplement with a presentation because I go to go into the schools and do presentations, I wrote a book, so that would be some nice side income. To have money to live comfortably and vacation.

Linzy: Lots of vacations, all the vacations. Okay. So 20 to 25, but I’m hearing you have this other, revenue source, or a way of getting yourself out there, which is through these presentations that you do. I’m curious, how much do you charge for a presentation?

Charissa: That’s a great question, because the last one, I sort of gave it away, and then other people in the same, it was for a school, other people in the same school were like, oh, could you come present for us? I’m like of course, why not?

Linzy: Right. Okay.

Charissa: So I don’t even know what the competition charges sometimes.

Linzy: Yeah.

Charissa: And I mean, I was doing this for my cousin. I’ll give you this price. This is a special price. This is not what I charge, which is, you know, completely true. But I wasn’t sure also what I should be charging.

Linzy: Okay. Yeah. What did you charge? Like what’s the special price?

Charissa: It was 750.

Linzy: Okay. Okay. Okay. That’s good. That’s higher than I thought you were going to say. So, I like that.

Charissa: I had started at 500 and I was like, you know, this is… It’s a lot of work.

Linzy: It is. Yes.

Charissa: then I upped it a little bit.

Linzy: Okay, okay. So this is nice because you already have built out this other way of doing your work that’s not one-on-one, right?

You have these presentations that you get to mix into your work week, which is great. Because with this, I’m hearing five clients a day. I will say, I get this little response where I’m like, five is a lot. But that’s totally about my nervous system. But it does make me curious about, for you, how you know that five a day is the right amount for you, your nervous system, and your life.

Charissa: I do not know that, but from my full-time job that I had years ago, we were required to schedule, let’s say, seven, and then five would show, and we had to do 25 a week. So that’s where I’m getting that from. That doesn’t mean that that works with my nervous system at all, given the work that I do.

Linzy: No. Yeah, and this is what I’m wondering, because we all have our capacity, we all have our sensitivities, and the work takes different things from different people. For me, when I was doing complex trauma work, I found that, actually, 16 was my cap four a day, four days a week. My partner would say that three was my cap because he could tell the difference between a three-client day and a four-client day for me.

After four clients I come home and it’s like I had a full day but now I’m tired. Three clients and I come home and I had a full day, and I have energy for other things, right? So it kind of depends on your bar, but this is something I want you to think about as we’re thinking about what you’re building,

cause then we’re going to go into what’s in the way, what do you want? What’s good for you? Cause I’m hearing you’ve had the experience of five clients a day, five days a week. That’s normal, right? That’s what you’ve been conditioned to do by your workplace. But in private practice, especially if you do want to step into full-time, you get to determine what full-time is and you get to determine what your schedule looks like.

Charissa: Linzy I love the sound of that.

Linzy: It’s good. 

Charissa: I love it!

Linzy: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I’m curious there’s this concept that I like to talk about with folks, which is your sweet spot, and your sweet spot in your clinical session. The Number of sessions that you can do that you feel like, yeah, that was a good full work day.

I don’t feel like there was a gap, right? You don’t feel like Oh, I could have seen one more. I wish I had one more client on my roster today. It’s a good full day, but you come home, and you still have gas in the tank to do your hobbies, go out with a friend, and spend some quality time with your daughter.

 There’s still energy for you and your life, right? And you still have some curiosity and spark for things outside of work. That is like the sweet spot where you’ve done the work, you feel satisfied, but you still have something left for you, and something substantial left for you. I’m curious, just checking with your gut what would be that number for you per day? Just think about a day. What’s an ideal client day where you would have the energy to enjoy life after?

Charissa: Well, right now, I do not think I enjoy the life that you’re describing and I would love to.  So, I don’t know, it might be three a day then. 

Linzy: Yeah. Okay. And when you get to the point in this work of starting to visualize how to build what you need, three is probably more of the number that you’re looking for than five per day.

Charissa: Yeah, three sounds about right. 

Charissa: Sometimes I have one person and I’m like, oh my god, I need a vacation, right now.

Linzy: Depending on the session and the content, and how close it is to your own lived experiences, and how you’re feeling that day. Yeah. The relationship, all of those things. Some sessions are very, very heavy. Yeah. Okay. So, three a day, and how many days a week would you like to be doing clinical work?

Charissa: It’d be nice if I could just do four.

Linzy: That’d be nice. Okay. Three times four. I like your smile. It’s good. It’s like you’re lightening up a little bit thinking about this. So three clients a day, four days a week, and then your presentations. How many presentations would you want to be doing?

Charissa: So, maybe, two a month?

Linzy: For some reason, that’s a number that came into my head, too. Yeah. Two per month.

It seems like one a week would be a lot. But especially as you build out more and more of those materials, there’s going to be less, You know, this starting over. You can start to repurpose materials. It’ll be easy. 

Charissa: It is a lot, A few weeks ago, I did like three in one. I need to just sleep all weekend. And I couldn’t, of course.

Linzy: Yeah. No. And that’s helpful to notice, right? Because I think, too, with our work, there’s always, again, that sweet spot of what is exciting and engaging and good, but can become too much, right? We are, we only have the capacity for so much in any given period.

Charissa: Right. And I speak so passionately, and I care so much about the topics that I’m presenting. Which is a plus, but it also takes a toll in its own right. 

Linzy: Okay. Okay. So this would be a dream scenario. And I don’t want to say dream. This is your goal scenario we’re talking about right now, which is three clients a day, four days a week, and then a presentation like twice a month. So every other week doing one of these presentations, because the presentations, too, what I’m hearing is 750 is what you charged.

This isn’t what I charged. This is the friend rate. What do you think you could conceivably charge for one of those presentations? I’m hearing you don’t know what your competition is doing. But thinking about the audience that you’re serving, the pockets that they have, what kind of money do they have to train their staff or to offer services to their community?

Charissa: Well, I saw some numbers because I was doing a little research and I thought they were a little outrageous but I’m five thousand dollars. Oh my god. I can’t charge that, but why not?  I have more credentials than some of these people who are charging .. a couple of thousand dollars, 

Linzy: Sure. Yes. Yes.

Charissa: So it’s about sort of accepting .. what I am giving them is worth 

Linzy: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So I’m seeing, hearing that in the space that you’re in, you’ve seen folks charging up to 5,000 for the kind of work that you’re doing. I like that for you. Okay. So, we’re going to.

Charissa: I like the sound of that. I’m getting so excited. I love this. I’m like 5, 000. What?

Linzy: If you think of clinical sessions, it’s like 5, 000 divided by if you were charging your full fee, 200 an hour, which you’re not entirely, that replaces 25 sessions of income.

Charissa: Oh my god.

Linzy: Yeah, I mean a presentation is in the business space we’d call more of a scaled offer where rather than one to one where one person has to pay for that hour of your time, it’s one too many, right?

You’re like serving an organization that has multi million dollar budgets or, you know, school boards or whatever, right, where it’s you are standing in a room and 50 people are getting the benefit of your knowledge, or 20 people, and that is a scaled offer, right? That’s when you get out of that just like one to one relationship into much deeper pockets, because they’re paying to train a whole department at once. So yeah, there’s a lot more opportunity there, to charge for this expertise that you’ve developed.

Charissa: I mean, it makes total sense, but when I get out there and I’m in the position to state what my fee is it’s really difficult. 

Linzy: So let’s, focus there. Tell me about what’s difficult about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Charissa: So I work, so far with people of color, and people with very limited resources, so that’s hence the scaling of the private fee but the presentations are something newer and it’s also to people of color, but they do have deep pockets. They do have a budget, I could present for 120 children with a super personalized presentation. I’m like, why did I just charge them 750? What was I thinking? But there’s a part of me that, that can’t get past that.

Linzy: Yes. And what can’t you get past? What’s coming up?

Charissa: Well, we were talking before we started, I have a lot of my upbringing. As I mentioned before, limited resources, but intergenerationally I come from the Dominican Republic. We had a dictatorship from 1930 to 1961. And there was genocide, there was torture, you name it, it was there.

Now, when I did my dissertation for school, I sort of found out how people survived, because I interviewed people who survived this dictatorship. And one of the things that I was shocked and found out was that poor people were sort of favored, and that is one of how they survived.

And when I made this connection, it was like, the light bulb went off. There were fireworks. This is what I’m dragging with me and I do this work with clients. I’m like this is severe money trauma.

Charissa: Sort of survival versus finances.

Linzy: Yeah. Or survival versus living or thriving, right? Because what I’m hearing is in that dictatorship, if you were, small in a certain sense, right? If you weren’t threatening, I’m going to assume there were all sorts of political… I don’t even know what to call it. Toxicity is too light of a word, but you know, you wouldn’t want to be noticeable, right?

You want to stay under the radar, not a threat to anybody, you know, like barely getting by yourself, get ignored and therefore your life is spared. Am I, am I understanding that?

Charissa: Yeah, right. Very very much so 

Linzy: so. I’m curious, when you think about that now, what do you notice is happening for you? Thinking about that, small is safe. Small keeps you alive.

Charissa: It’s I mean you were describing it. And although I’ve done so much research on this, I was like, oh my god, she hit the nail on the head there. That’s sort of what I’m doing. I’m staying small, not being noticeable. I don’t even do any advertising.

Linzy: Right.

Charissa: It’s so parallel. I mean, I said it was deep, but it’s a lot deeper than I thought. Yes and thinking about this, Charissa, to maybe trace this a little bit in your own life, this idea, this strategy that staying small is how you survive. Did you see your parents or folks in the generation above you living this strategy, or how do you think you inherited it?

That’s a very interesting question. I’m a single mom. My mom was a single mom. My grandparents were together, and they’re the ones who experienced the dictatorship firsthand. But of course, you know, trauma gets passed down from generation to generation. So how did I learn it? I mean, I don’t know the exact mechanism. And there’s like, also the gender role, right? Because my grandmother was a huge role model for me. But she very much stayed invisible sometimes. And my grandfather, as a male, you know, patriarch, got the light. So I don’t know how I got all that. But I know that during the dictatorship, and I think in general in my family, and in my culture, it was also about staying quiet. I mean the same thing: staying small, staying quiet. That’s what we learned to do. 

Linzy: One question that always comes to mind for me, and I’m sure this is a question you’ve probably asked many times being a trauma therapist, is, you know, looking at your situation now, like zooming out and taking some perspective, what is different about your life now than your grandparent’s life under that dictatorship?

Charissa: I mean, fortunately for me, I’m not surviving,  it’s that my life is not on the line like theirs was… So I don’t need that coping which I am clutching and holding onto. So I need to find a way to let go.

Linzy: Yeah. Yeah. And if you think about letting that go, because this is a strategy that your grandparents needed, right? And all the folks of their generation needed… So it had utility, right? It had utility two generations ago. It’s inherited, right? These things we live and breathe it. Who knows, as you said, what the exact mechanism is, whether you absorbed stories or whether it’s biological trauma, but if you think about the idea of letting it go like you had this visual of clutching, right? So if you think about that release of just gently letting it go, what happens to you?

Charissa: I got a little, my body got a little tense when you said sort of let go. These are things that are so deeply ingrained. That’s a good question. I know I need to let go, but how? And what is the strategy to do that? And just talking to you, I’m having all these insights Simultaneously. But there is no use for that, and that’s something that I have to sort of take in. And I know that’ll take time, that I don’t have use for those coping mechanisms.

Linzy: No, I mean, there’s that, that piece of, Another kind of trauma phrase is like, you know, the conditions have changed just catching up, letting that part of you catch up because other parts of, you know, this doesn’t make any sense. I have all this experience. I have 20-plus years of expertise.

You know, I need the money. I need to pay for college. There are lots of parts of you that know that this doesn’t make sense, but the part of you that’s clutching it is slowly letting that part catch up to life now. And what is different about your life now than your grandparent’s life, right? And why that strategy isn’t needed at this moment.

Charissa: It will take a lot to sort of let that simmer if that’s even the right word. Yeah, cause it’s been, that was like 60, 70 years ago, and here I am sort of living a piece of it. This is a testament to the strength of the trauma, but okay, let’s let go of the trauma.

Linzy: Yes. I mean, this may be one of these moments where the way out is through, right? So there are two sides, I think to money in general, and one is the first part that we started talking about, which is the numbers to start. What are the numbers you need?

You know, what is possible here? You know, and we can play with those numbers even a little bit more. That’s that informational piece. That’s logic. That’s the possibility. That’s the beauty of math, I would say. Probably have a hard time getting most of the folks that listen to me on board with that.

But, the other side is this, Folks would call it mindset. That’s a very catch-all term. It is the mindset, but this is trauma. This is real trauma, right? This is intergenerational trauma. This is your family surviving a dictatorship and genocide, right? And that’s not something that, I think we’re often able to just shift, you know, through, cognitive knowledge. This might be worth taking to your trauma therapy.

Charissa: Yes, I agree. I just didn’t realize. This is so deep.

Linzy: Yeah, it is. And what I’m visualizing right now as we’re talking is that’s the bottom-up work to do, right? Which you can do with a therapist and which you can do in your other ways of healing and shifting that, you’ve developed for yourself. And then there’s the more top-down learning to getting your brain online, which is like figuring out what numbers are possible for you and what you want your week to look like.

And if you did step into owning your expertise and saying I charged 5 000 a workshop. I’ve been doing this work for 20-plus years. This is going to blow your socks off. Trust me, the best investment you’re gonna make all year, right? Developing the clarity of what you need, and a little bit of fake it till you make it, and seeing that people will. These two things meet in the middle, right? That is like deep work and the kind of logical strategic business part, to make real change in how you experience your business. And also what’s possible in your life, because I’m hearing there are lots of things that you want, mostly vacations.

Charissa: Yes, you heard me right.

Linzy: Is this survival mechanism going to get in the way of that?

Charissa: Right. And people back then didn’t have those luxuries. Those vacations. And it’s okay for me to have them.

Linzy: Yeah, I mean, something that I think about sometimes is… I bet they would have loved them.

Charissa: Oh, for sure.

Linzy: Right? They didn’t have them. It doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t have loved to go on an amazing trip somewhere and see the world or, you know, I think sometimes it’s easy for us to look at the low bar and think that because the bar has been low, that it should keep staying low. But the reality is everybody would enjoy going on trips, having a home that’s safe and clean, and being able to eat good food. These are things that everybody should have access to, right? The fact that folks throughout history or folks in the world right now don’t have access doesn’t mean that it’s not a wonderful thing that you should have access to or that they would also love to have access to. They’re just good things. So Charissa, coming towards the end of our conversation, we have scratched the surface. I’m curious, what are you taking away coming to the end of our time?

Charissa: I am taking away that I need more therapy, other things, but that doing the math is going to… And I’m not good at math, by the way… doing the math and planning and setting some goals and putting some strategies into place is something that I’m going to need guidance with, too, but it’s something that I need to do.

Linzy: Those are skills, right? That’s the piece around just developing the skills to be able to play with numbers and understand how they work together. To understand what I want. To take 12 weeks of vacation every year. How do I set up a system that allows me to do that, which is completely doable, right? I teach that. Because that is the machine, that’s the strategy part that supports you in being a happy, healthy human. 

Charissa: You said 12 weeks and my heart just jumped for joy.

Linzy: Did it? Yeah. Okay. There you go.

Charissa: At the thought of taking 12 weeks!

Linzy: I think, I think that’s what you need. And I mean, these things like travel… I’m going on a trip in a couple of weeks with some of my business friends, actually, for my birthday. I’m going to London and Iceland, and the levity that brings knowing that that’s coming,

and we’ve been texting about how much we’re going to drink so much fucking tea. We’re all so excited to go to London and go to the hot springs. If you are someone who enjoys travel and vacations it does bring so much lightness and wonder and joy to life, and the cost of those things is not necessarily that high when we are strategic and we build it into the way that we run our business. So I totally, totally see 12 weeks for you, especially with your 20-plus years of expertise that you’re about to step out and own in the world.

Charissa: Ooh, that sounds a little scary, but yes, doable. 

Linzy: Well, Charissa, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Charissa: Thank you for having me. It was a true joy.

Linzy: This conversation with Charissa today, which I so appreciate her having, cause it’s a vulnerable conversation to have, highlights something that I think so many folks in the coaching space, or financial space, miss, which is that some of our barriers around money, some of our quote-unquote mindset challenges,

are trauma, true trauma. Not like a little bit of trauma, but in this case, you know, deep intergenerational trauma that was very much about your life being in danger and what you had to do to survive. I always encourage folks, if you notice that you have really deep trauma, if there’s like a deep family of origin stuff, childhood stuff, things around safety and survival and self-worth that is hard for you to think your way through and that doesn’t just start to shift because you notice it, that is the opportunity for taking that to therapy.

And it does not have to be a specific financial therapist. It’s about going to a trauma therapist, or whatever modalities work for you, somatic therapy, to let your body let go of these things. Cause once we take the time to take care of that trauma, let our bodies let go, let our nervous systems and brains catch up to the present, then it is so much easier to learn.

You can still do this work simultaneously. You can still, of course, work on your trauma and learn skills, and think about what you want and own your gifts, a little fake it till you make it at the same time. But certainly, in some cases, that trauma work is essential to actually being able to heal your relationship with money.

So I’m super excited for Charissa. The work that she’s doing for other folks, the work that she’s planning to do for herself. She’s one of those people that I would love to hear from in a year or two about how things are going. If you would like to get my support and work with me, the way to learn about what I do is through my masterclass, the Four Step Framework to Get Your Business Finances Totally in Order.

This masterclass will walk you through the three biggest mistakes that keep therapists from getting clarity on their business finances. We’ll talk about how I went from just getting by in my private practice to thriving financially. If you finally want to take control of your private practice finances, then check out the masterclass.

The link is in the show notes, and that is also your gateway to get an invitation for Money Skills for Therapists, which is my signature six-month program where you get my coaching and support to make real changes around money. So you can check out the link for the four-step framework to get your business finances totally in order in the show notes.

You can also follow me on Instagram at Money Nuts and Bolts. And of course, as always, I humbly request that if you are enjoying the podcast, leave a review on Apple podcasts, it is the best way for folks to find the podcast and be part of these conversations. Thanks so much for listening today.