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108: How to Get Unstuck with Retirement Planning Coaching Session

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“I think what that’ll do is just free me up in those ways that I’ve described that I enjoy about private practice where it’s like, I don’t have to think about those things. I know they’re taken care of, and I can just focus on the day to day, and enjoy the freedom and luxury that comes with that.”

~Genevieve Strange

Meet Genevieve Strange

Genevieve has worked in the mental health field for 24 years, as a psychologist for 15. She spent the first 20 years working with people involved in the criminal justice system, including 8 years in a medium security federal prison. She has been in private practice for 3 years now.

In this Episode...

Are you feeling stuck when it comes to planning for retirement? Linzy sits down with listener Genevieve Strange, a psychologist who transitioned to private practice three years ago. Despite her successful career shift, Genevieve faces a common challenge many of us encounter: she is feeling stuck around contributing to her retirement fund.

Join Linzy and Genevieve as they explore the root causes of this block, discussing perfectionism, the big picture, and spending patterns. Linzy addresses the anxieties and distractions that often prevent us from securing our financial futures. Whether you’re just starting to think about retirement or have been putting it off for years, this episode provides practical advice to help you get unstuck and take meaningful steps towards a secure retirement. 

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Genevieve: I think what that’ll do is just free me up in those ways that I described that I enjoy about private practice where it’s like, I don’t have to think about those things. I know they’re taken care of, and I can just focus on the day to day, and enjoying the freedom and luxury that comes with that.

[00:00:21] Linzy: Welcome to the Money Skills for Therapists podcast, where we answer this question: how can therapists and health practitioners go from money shame and confusion to feeling calm and confident about their finances and get money really working for them in both their private practice and their lives? I’m your host, Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach, and creator of the course Money Skills for Therapists.

[00:00:49] Hello and welcome back to the podcast. Today’s episode is a coaching episode with a listener, Genevieve Strange. Genevieve is a psychologist. She shares a little bit in the episode that she worked for many, many years in the prison system and stepped out to private practice about three years ago.

[00:01:08] And today we get into a topic that is relevant for all of us and can be a stressor for many of us, which is retirement. We talk about how, even though Genevieve has been in practice for a few years and everything is working well, she’s had this kind of inertia or block around starting contributing to her retirement

[00:01:27] again. We dig into why that is. We talk about perfectionism. We talk about big picture. And we dig a little bit into Amazon purchases and what that means to her, and how it can mean many different things to different people. We hit a lot of points today that I know many of us think about and worry about as parents and just humans who are going to age and retire and need to have money.

[00:01:49] And yet there’s all these things calling our time and attention now. Here is my conversation with Genevieve Strange.

[00:02:11] Linzy: Welcome to the podcast, Genevieve.

[00:02:12] Genevieve: Thank you. I’m happy to be here. I appreciate the opportunity.

[00:02:15] Linzy: So Genevieve, for folks listening, tell us a little bit about yourself and then what you want us to focus on today.

[00:02:21] Genevieve: So my name’s Dr. Genevieve Strange. I’m a psychologist and mental health therapist in the Pacific Northwest.I’ve been in private practice for about three years. Before that, a large part of my work was working with people in the criminal justice system. So I worked in a lot of state hospitals, prisons, jails,

[00:02:38] things like that. So private practice has been a nice transition.

[00:02:42] Linzy: Yes, I bet. So, what do you want us to focus on today? What can I help you dig into?

[00:02:47] Genevieve: Well, one of the things with private practice that I’m very aware of is being mindful to save for retirement, particularly because both my husband and I are self employed. So, that’s an important aspect that we need to be mindful of.

[00:02:59] Linzy: Yes. Okay. And what’s happening with retirement savings now?

[00:03:04] Genevieve: Right now. It’s just, we have this sort of static, just because I started my practice about three years ago. So, adjusting to all that.

[00:03:11] Linzy: Yes. Okay. So by static, you mean like things are, you’ve got some money, but it’s not growing. You’re not adding to it right now.

[00:03:19] Genevieve: Right. Right.

[00:03:20] Linzy: Okay. Yes. and how much do you have set aside right now?

[00:03:23] Genevieve: Right now there’s about a hundred thousand, plus I have a partial pension from the government that I worked with for eight years.

[00:03:30] Linzy: Okay. Okay. So there’s some money there, which is great. Like we’re not starting from zero. But I know in your questionnaire that you filled out in advance, you mentioned that with your age, you’re thinking about, you know, like it’s coming. Not tomorrow…

[00:03:43] Genevieve: it’s closer than it used to be.

[00:03:44] Linzy: Yes. Yes. It gets closer every day for all of us.

[00:03:47] So, okay. So tell me right now, Genevieve, like I’m hearing that you have not been contributing to your retirement actively in the last little while as you’ve been establishing your practice. Where is your practice right now in terms of your caseload and the money that’s coming in?

[00:04:01] Genevieve: It’s been full time for, I mean, at least two, two and a half years. So short of just, you know, breaks or taking time off or something, it’s been full.

[00:04:11] Linzy: Okay. Okay. So you are full, like you’re not kind of in that building stage still where there’s a big gap between where you are and where you want to be. Okay. So I’m curious, like being full, what has stopped you from starting to contribute to retirement? What’s happening with that money instead?

[00:04:26] Genevieve: I think for the first year, it was sort of getting to know all the expenses. And also it took about a year and a half to figure out taxes and what that would be. And so that was kind of the main focus in the beginning was just saving money for whatever the tax implication would be.

[00:04:43] And now we have a better sense of that. So I want to move on to doing other saving.

[00:04:47] Linzy: Yeah. It sounds like you were kind of, you were getting your feet under you taking care of like your obligation, which is taxes. And so now you’ve got your taxes sorted out. So this’ll now be the next step. Okay. So in terms of money coming into your practice, I’m curious,the paycheck that you’re getting, that you’re bringing home, is it covering your needs?

[00:05:06] Is it feeling tight? What’s your experience with that money?

[00:05:09] Genevieve: No, it’s definitely covering my needs. It doesn’t feel tight except, you know, like certain times of year, like January is always a harder time of year just because insurance companies slow down, and everything, deductibles restart, and all that sort of stuff. But otherwise, it’s fine.

[00:05:24] Linzy: Okay. Okay. So it’s not like it feels super tight and that’s stopping you. So, I’m curious: what has been stopping you? What has stopped you from contributing last week to retirement or the week before? What do you notice when you think about starting to make contributions again?

[00:05:39] Genevieve: I think it’s a little anxiety-inducing to think about, like, how much should I be contributing? I don’t really know how much I should be contributing. And so it sort of feels… I don’t know. If I put 500 every payday, is that… am I still setting myself up for failure? You know, it’s hard to say.

[00:05:56] Linzy: Yeah. What I’m hearing, correct me if I’m not reading this right, but, you want to do it perfectly.

[00:06:03] Genevieve: I want to be adequate, you know? I don’t want to be 65, not that I know that I’ll necessarily retire at 65, but I want to be 65 and be like, oh, well, that 500, 000 is great, but it’s not much.

[00:06:14] Linzy: Yes. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Because what I’m hearing is you want to do it right. You want to set yourself up for good retirement, which is great that you already have that connection for your future self. You know that is going to be you, actually, living off that money, but you don’t know what that amount is. So you’re not contributing yet because you don’t know how to do it right.

[00:06:33] Genevieve: Yeah. And it all sounds stupid when I say it out loud, but that is the issue.

[00:06:36] Linzy: We are humans. This is how we do life, right? So yeah, the first thing that comes to me,is a phrase that use a lot in Money Skills for Therapists, like in the course, because this is something we, a lot of therapists, I think, deal with, which is this perfect is the enemy of done.

[00:06:50] Right. It’s like you don’t know how to do it right. So you’re not doing it because you don’t want to do it wrong. But right now your contribution level is zero. Yes.

[00:06:57] Genevieve: Zero is probably wrong, but nonetheless…

[00:07:00] Linzy: Yes. I think. I don’t like to get into right and wrong. But I will say, I think unequivocally 0 percent for retirement is not going to set you up for the life that you want. Yes. So let’s start to think about: there’s two pieces here. One is you getting actual clarity on how much money you need. And that’s something that I’m not going to be able to give you in, you know, any kind of detail today.

[00:07:20] Cause first of all, I’m not a financial planner. Second of all, that’s kind of like a complex picture, right? And this is what I’m kind of hearing that you’ve maybe been mired in or pausing because there are a lot of variables that help us determine what is the right retirement amount for you.

[00:07:34] Right? So that is the first piece is I’m actually going to give you, it’s not homework because you’re not coming back, but a suggestion for a next step would be: have you and your husband met with a financial advisor who can help you determine how much you actually need to be saving for your lifestyle and your goals?

[00:07:50] Genevieve: We haven’t gone together. I have met with a financial advisor in the past, but that was when I was working, you know, for a company, not private practice.

[00:07:57] Linzy: Yes. So there’s an updated picture that you need to get, right? Cause it is unclear, right? And there’s going to always be these kinds of standard guidelines that are out there that are not going to do you wrong. Right? Again, something is always better than nothing. If you’re putting away 50 bucks a month, that’s better than zero.

[00:08:13] But I am hearing that you are missing that clarity and that’s a bit paralyzing. So that is going to be a piece for you to look at after is you and your husband sitting down with a financial advisor with your new picture, two self employed people who have partial pension from the government.

[00:08:27] You have a hundred K, your husband might have some things as well. What do you want your retirement to look like? Do you want to travel a lot? Are you, you know, planning to stay in one place for a long time? Do you want a simple life? Do you want a luxurious life? These are all questions that, you know, a financial advisor can help you think through,

[00:08:42] As well as your risk tolerance, right? Like how much risk do you want to take to build up money in terms of investing versus how conservative you are. So that sounds like that’s missing information. And I’m going to say that information is going to help you a lot.For today, what I want to think about is how can we get you started, right?

[00:08:59] Like, how can we just kind of break this inertia that is there of not knowing those answers yet and do it anyways, right? Do it imperfectly. Right. So,

[00:09:08] thinking about the money coming into your practice right now, Genevieve, like I’m hearing that you’re comfortable at home. You’re not, you know, scraping by, which is great. How much do you think you have available at this moment that you could start contributing to retirement maybe without even feeling it? Let’s start there. What would be something that you know for sure you could easily put towards retirement each month?

[00:09:33] Genevieve: I think for sure I could probably do 300 each paycheck. I think I could do five, but that would, you know… I think that’s not for sure.

[00:09:44] Linzy: Okay. Okay. And how often do you pay yourself? What’s your paycheck frequency?

[00:09:48] Genevieve: Every two weeks. Right.

[00:09:50] Linzy: So you could do 600 bucks a month for sure, without really causing yourself any discomfort.

[00:09:57] It wouldn’t. 500 bucks a paycheck. So getting up to a thousand bucks a month, maybe that would start to feel squeakier. I’m curious for you, what is the difference between that 600 a month and that a thousand dollars a month? What do you start to worry might go away?

[00:10:12] Genevieve: I am a person who is very financially responsible and also not super detail oriented about my sort of, what would be the right word? Like Amazon spending or stuff. I don’t really pay a lot of attention to that. If I did the 500 a month, I would have to pay attention to that sort of thing, which wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing, but also would be a, you know, just a habit change.

[00:10:39] Linzy: Yes, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Because I will say chances are that the 500 a paycheck is going to be better than the 300 paycheck. And again, as you sit down with a financial advisor, you and your husband together, you can determine, because in some ways it’s like, how much do you want to… the word sacrifice comes to mind, but it’s not even sacrifice.

[00:10:57] I was going to say, how much do you want to sacrifice now? And that’s not even it. It’s like how much discipline do you want to bring into your life now to serve your future self? What’s that balance of being able to enjoy life now and order stuff on Amazon? What is the value of Amazon purchases in your life?

[00:11:11] And I’m sure there’s a range of things on Amazon because Amazon sells literally everything. So there’s pleasure spending. I’m sure there’s household spending. How important is that compared to setting yourself up for an extra 1,000 a month in your retirement. Let’s just throw around like kind of a safe number.

[00:11:28] When we think about that difference between 600 a month and 1,000 a month, it’s like a 400 difference. What is it that maybe part of you wants to hold on to by not having to keep a close eye on your Amazon purchases? What is that that feels important about being able to hold on to that behavior?

[00:11:44] Genevieve: I think there’s a couple of things. I mean, one, when I was a kid, we didn’t have much money. And you know, as a kid, that’s fine. But I have always appreciated being able to have a career where I have enough, and I have more than enough. And I’m not particularly motivated by money.

[00:12:04] As long as I have enough, I’m fine. I’m not trying to make a half a million a year or something. I think there’s a little bit of that, like just the hard work to become a psychologist and the work that I do, like to just have a little bit of that freedom and luxury to not have to nickel and dime, you know, pay attention to everything all the time.

[00:12:25] Linzy: Yes.

[00:12:27] Genevieve: I also think having left large agency work that was particularly stressful just because of the population that I worked with, working in private practice feels, you know, much more of a relief from those pressures. And so I think also there’s a little bit of just wanting to enjoy the freedom and the ease that comes with this work compared to what I used to do.

[00:12:55] None of that really has to do with money, but…

[00:13:00] Linzy: Right. Yeah. Well, and this is what I’m wondering, right, is I’m hearing two things. I’m hearing there’s certainly part of you that still really remembers these experiences of not having enough as a kid, right? And it sounds like in some ways part of how you take care of that part or like a behavior that’s come up because of that is you just want to be able to have what you want.

[00:13:18] Genevieve: Right.

[00:13:19] Linzy: Which, yeah, makes total sense, right? Because it is very stressful as a child to be aware that there isn’t enough, right? Or whatever kind of messages you would have received from your parents about that, however they explain that to you, is stressful for a child, right? And we carry that into our adulthood, and I’m hearing part of it is now you’ve developed kind of an opposite behavior of, you just want to be able to have things.

[00:13:40] Genevieve: Yeah. I mean, I think I just want to have the liberty, you know, like I don’t necessarily have things, like I’m not a big thing person, but I just want to know that I have the option that it’s available.

[00:13:53] Linzy: Yes. What I’m thinking is how do we take care of these multiple needs at the same time, right? So one is not at the expense of the other. So there’s part of you that needs to have liberty. I’m hearing that liberty is important. What I’m thinking is how do we set you up to definitely have liberty, and maybe liberty is not things.

[00:14:11] Maybe it’s not even about Amazon. Maybe it’s something else, right? But like how do you make sure that part of you feels that freedom that you have now and that you’ve hard earned, right? Like getting a doctorate in psychology is not a small deal, right? And so recognizing that and also starting to in some ways, make up for a bit of lost time, make those contributions to retirement, and take care of your future self. Does the concept of like parts resonate with you or is that…?

[00:14:38] Genevieve: Yes.

[00:14:38] Linzy: and so I’m thinking about at least two parts are involved here, probably more like eight, you know, because humans, we’re all very complex, but it’s like, how do you take care of that little girl who needs to know now that she does have the freedom, and also take care of that 75 or 80 year old version of yourself

[00:14:53] who doesn’t want to subsist on beans and rice, or wants to also be able to enjoy her life and do fun things, so that she also has liberty, right? And it’s not liberty now at the cost of liberty later, right? And something that’s coming to mind for me that I’m curious if it would resonate with you is the idea of a liberty fund. What if you had specific money every month that it’s about giving you experiences of liberty?

[00:15:19] Genevieve: Okay. That’s an interesting idea.

[00:15:21] Linzy: It is. Yes. So for instance, if you think about that idea that we had money just bookmarked for liberty, call it your liberty fund or whatever you want that’s going to really bring that up for you… What could you do with that money to give you that experience, maybe even on a more profound level than you have been?

[00:15:39] What would really help you connect with the fact that you have liberty? you can make choices. You can do things. You have power.

[00:15:50] Genevieve: I don’t know what I’d do with it.

[00:15:51] Linzy: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:53] Genevieve: Honestly, I mean…

[00:15:55] Linzy: Well, what gives you that experience? When do you really feel that freedom and liberty?

[00:16:01] Genevieve: I, I feel it in part, like when I’m able to take time off of work, you know, I mentioned before we got started that I have two kids who are 10 and eight. So the idea that I can just take half a day off to go to the Christmas cookie party for my daughter is like mind blowing to me because I’ve always worked for large institutions.

[00:16:22] And you only have so much time off and those things. For me, that feels amazing to be, to just make my schedule be what I need it to be, not what is dictated by someone else.

[00:16:40] Linzy: And what I’m hearing there is that’s not even money that you’re spending. That’s actually about setting up your schedule to give you the flexibility to be able to show up and be present when you want to be.

[00:16:50] Genevieve: Yeah. But it is also about managing my money and my workload, both to be able to support, you know, that, that not working for those couple hours.

[00:17:02] Linzy: Yes. And what that would be… There’s a couple things that would be. Part of it would be a regular paycheck system, right? A paycheck system that you’re getting paid the same no matter what. Do you have a system like that in place yet?

[00:17:14] Genevieve: Yes.

[00:17:14] Linzy: Great. Okay. And the system that you’ve set up, is it allowing you to take this time off and not have your paycheck be impacted?

[00:17:20] Genevieve: I think it is, but in a haphazard kind of way, where I know in the information that you talk to people about, there’s a like time off fund to cover time off, which I have , but I’ll say I don’t know how to use it.

[00:17:36] Linzy: Yes. Yeah. So what I will say is I do talk to folks about a time off fund. If people really want a time off fund. It’s actually not my favorite way to have paid time off. I find myself, I can be someone who can be a little bit not sure when I’m allowed to have a treat or like… And I do have that hesitation around using a paid time off fund where they’re like, yeah, but I don’t really want to see that number go down.

[00:18:01] And maybe I could just work a little bit more, and then I don’t have to use my paid time off fund. It can become a barrier. So the system that I actually like better for having regular paid time off is this regular paycheck system where all your money that’s going to go towards your paychecks goes to one place. It goes to one place, but what you figure out is what is that regular sustainable amount you can take out of that one place, which is one bank account generally, so that the time off that you know you want to take in the year is baked into that number and you never have to make the active decision of digging in to paid time off money.

[00:18:36] It’s just let’s say for instance, for simple numbers, Genevieve, it’s let’s say each month, in your paycheck fund, so tax taxes are being taken care of elsewhere. And it sounds like you’ve already locked in that system. But let’s say in your paycheck fund, you discover that on average, you’re able to pay yourself like 6, 000 a month, right?

[00:18:55] If you look at the year, you’re like, okay, for all the clients I plan to see, I want to take off eight weeks. In total. Some of that is going to be an afternoon off to go to the cookie party. Some of that might be an actual trip to Hawaii. some of it might just be staying home and painting your bathroom.

[00:19:09] It’s like everything. Some of it’s going to be all the diseases that the children bring home, which we were chatting about off mic beforehand. Once you look at what you can afford to pay yourself big picture,

[00:19:20] 46 weeks with the average amount of clients you see, you can determine a paycheck amount.

[00:19:25] And if we see that, let’s say that amount is 6,000 some months, there’s going to be 7,000 or 8,000 that goes in there because you have a busier month where you see more clients and you work more, but you still only take six. Right? So you’re building up that buffer and you don’t have to make an active decision to use the buffer.

[00:19:39] It’s there. And then other months where you’ve worked less and you’ve brought in less money, you’re still taking six and you’re actually digging into that buffer a little bit, but you don’t even realize you’re doing it because all you’re doing is drawing your regular paycheck. Right? So there’s kind of this math we do upfront and then we don’t have to make active decisions later about whether or not we actually get to use our time off, our paid time off.

[00:19:58] It’s built in.

[00:20:00] Genevieve: So if I’m understanding, what you’re saying is my business checking account, which is what I used for, where all my money goes, let’s say that there’s that month that I make 7,000, that 1000 stays in the business checking account, and then I just still take the 6, 000.

[00:20:16] Linzy: Correct.

[00:20:18] Genevieve: Okay.

[00:20:18] Linzy: Yeah. And I mean, ideally… Are you familiar with Profit First or like a multiple bank account system?

[00:20:24] Genevieve: Yes. That’s what I use.

[00:20:25] Linzy: Okay, perfect. Yes. So it’s exactly that. So just like we’re just talking right now with that salary account or paycheck account. Yeah. So you put in seven, but you’re only going to take six. And then the next month you might only bring in five or let’s say a little bit more than that, 5, 500.

[00:20:41] And so you’re going to dig into 500 of the money from the month before, but again, you’ve built in this big picture plan. So you’re not making an active decision. Should I take this money? Should I work a little harder and make a little more so I don’t have to? It’s just baked in.

[00:20:54] You’ve already made the decision up front. I’m going to not work eight weeks this year, and I’m going to have that liberty experience of being able to go see my kids’ Christmas pageant. And I’m not even going to have to think about if I can afford it.

[00:21:08] Genevieve: I definitely think that would work better for me than having time off fund. Cause I did, like I said, it just feels unwieldy.

[00:21:16] Linzy: Yes. Yeah. I don’t love it. I don’t love it. Some folks really want to see that cause they want to see it build up. Personally, I prefer this. So this will be one component of your system then. And what I’m hearing is this is actually kind of your liberty fund. Your liberty is around time and your use of time.

[00:21:31] Genevieve: Yes.

[00:21:31] Linzy: Let’s go back to a little earlier in our conversation, when we had talked about the idea of you contributing 500 a paycheck, so like a thousand bucks a month. You had talked about Amazon. So let’s talk about the relationship between Amazon and liberty.

[00:21:46] Genevieve: Yeah. I think it’s, you know, in a way that’s sort of about time as well, in the sense that it’s not some… whatever I’m buying for the house for my kids or whatever, you know, it’s not something that I have to put on my list to go do this weekend. It’s done. It’s off my list. So I think that is a little bit of it where we can just… whatever the need is, we can just address it and move on, and we don’t have to keep it on the to do list.

[00:22:14] Linzy: So does that cost you more than going to a store? Buying from Amazon instead of going to a store on the weekend?

[00:22:19] Genevieve: I don’t know. I don’t necessarily think it costs me more. I think, you know, between the gas and all that to go wrangle everything up, it would probably cost more.

[00:22:29] Linzy: Yes. Yes. Because what I’m hearing is for you, because Amazon means a lot of things to a lot of people. Where my brain initially went when you said you want the freedom to spend on Amazon, I was thinking about impulse purchases. Like buying stuff. I don’t know, buying an avocado blanket because you’re tired and it’s cute and you want it and by the time it arrives you’re like, oh right, I ordered this.

[00:22:49] Forgot about that. That’s not what you’re talking about.

[00:22:52] Genevieve: No, I think it’s much more utilitarian than that. It’s my makeup remover, you know, my girls’ Easter dresses they wanted. And part of that, too, is with the way that everything has changed with COVID and… you know, before that, the in store shopping versus online shopping, and I’ll explain how COVID made a big difference for us.

[00:23:12] I’m in Oregon, so we were literally shut down for two years. It was a long time that we, like when COVID first happened, they shut down the schools, they shut down everything. The only place you could go was like the grocery store and Home Depot, which is where everyone went. but in Oregon, that lasted for months, many, many, many months.

[00:23:38] I mean, the schools were shut down for over a year. I mean, it was intense. So a lot of shopping options totally went away during that time, and they never came back. We have vacant buildings in our city that used to be department stores, so, you know, and I know it sounds ridiculous, but like where would I go to get Easter dresses for my kids if it wasn’t online? And if I did go somewhere,

[00:24:05] it would be like an hour drive there, and an hour drive back. I think that’s where Amazon became the sort of go to.

[00:24:16] Linzy: First of all, I will say we had a similar experience in Ontario. We were also shut down for a long time, and you had to prove that you were going somewhere. Sometimes people got in trouble because they’re out in their car and they were playing Pokemon Go. So they got ticketed.It was a time.

[00:24:27] And similarly in my city, there are certain things that I actually can’t get in my city. I’d have to drive to the city 25 minutes away to get, especially having a baby and having kids. My city, despite being a city of 100, 000 people, weirdly has a lack of children’s supplies and baby supplies. I’m hearing that when you’re saying Amazon in the way that you’re saying Amazon, I think what you’re actually talking about is just household purchases.

[00:24:52] Genevieve: Yes, I think so.

[00:24:53] Linzy: I think so, yes. And it’s not that these are actually impulse buys. It’s not even sounding like it’s that much of a convenience buy. Like there’s a convenience tax on it, right? It’s not like you’re getting Uber Eats and you’re paying 20 for a delivery for a 15 meal, right? Like we’re actually just talking about you doing your household maintenance

[00:25:09] and shopping online so you don’t have to take a trip to the next city over on a Saturday, right? And I don’t know if that’s actually costing you any more money.

[00:25:19] Genevieve: Yeah. I don’t think it is.

[00:25:20] And it arrives at my door. It’s perfect.

[00:25:22] Linzy: Yes. Yes. So what I’m wondering is if the, you know, that initial response that you had, where we were talking about what if you save 1,000 a month instead of 600 a month… I don’t know if Amazon really has anything to do with that. Because I’m not hearing that you’re actually spending more because of Amazon. I’m just hearing that you do your household spending on Amazon. So I guess the question that I have is, are you spending any more on Amazon than you would be spending if it was in store in terms of, like, buying more stuff for your household?

[00:25:49] Or is this just how you do your household shopping?

[00:25:53] Genevieve: I don’t know. Now I’m looking at my Amazon purchases. So…

[00:25:55] Linzy: Take a look. Yeah. What are we actually talking about?

[00:25:57] Genevieve: Yeah, no, I mean, it’s definitely… Some of it’s, you know, stuff for my kids. Like we went on a trip, so I bought stuff, but like shirts for my daughter because she outgrew her shirts, but then it’s like vitamins, and swim goggles.

[00:26:11] Linzy: Yes. And I really want to distinguish this because I think this happens a lot to women or the primary parent in a family. And I don’t know if that’s your case, but, where we are told to shop less and spend less and feel bad about spending. And yet the spending we’re doing is like literally just vitamins for our children.

[00:26:29] Right. And so this is what I’m hearing here is you have this story that you… You know that shopping on Amazon is somehow not a good thing, but you’re actually taking care of your family is what you’re doing. This is not impulse spending. This is not 11 p. m. Instagram purchases for things that you regret the next day.

[00:26:44] This is literally just taking care of your kids and your household.

[00:26:47] If you think about it that way, that Amazon is just how you buy groceries or, you know, household items, would contributing 500 a paycheck interfere with your ability to buy household items and take care of your household?

[00:26:59] Genevieve: I think I would just have to look at my budget and maybe outline it more in order to see, because I haven’t… Again, silly, but I haven’t necessarily just sat down and crunched numbers to see what that difference would be.

[00:27:14] Linzy: Yes. I would encourage you to do that as part two, right? So a financial planner, financial advisor will help you look at the big picture. What can you do now that if you start doing it every paycheck, you and your husband both, start building a saving habit, where will it get you?

[00:27:29] Is it the retirement that you want? That’s your big picture, right? But your weekly picture is like, what do you actually need in your household just to sustain your normal standard of living? Where we’re not talking about extravagance. We’re not talking about impulse. I’m not even hearing that in the picture.

[00:27:44] We’re just talking about how much it costs to buy vitamins for your kids and their Easter dresses and all of the normal things that have to do with taking care of a family. And how much wiggle is there, right? How much money is not actually called for that might, you might end up spending in a restaurant or buying something that’s a bit more expensive than something next to it, but could instead go towards taking care of your future self, your retirement self.

[00:28:05] Genevieve: Yeah. I mean, I think our biggest indulgence is like going out to eat once a week.

[00:28:10] Linzy: Right? Right. Yes. Yes.

[00:28:12] Genevieve: More expensive now than it used to be.

[00:28:14] Linzy: Yes, it is.

[00:28:16] Genevieve: That’s really, I mean, we’re not particularly outlandish people, but I do think that’s where time comes in, like we talked about initially, like being able to take time off, go take the kids on trips, stuff like that…

[00:28:30] Linzy: What I’m wondering is if you really highlight your experiences of liberty, both by implementing the system we just talked about of folding your paid time off, just into your salary account, looking at what is that regular number, thinking about how much time off do I want to take in the year?

[00:28:45] And then like running, playing with numbers to see, okay, what is the sustainable paycheck that lets me take time off work whenever I need to, take the weeks off I want to take in the summer with my kids, take times off over the winter holidays, like really think big picture, right?

[00:28:57] So once you have that number of what the business can pay you, you’re going to be able to then also look at your household number and see yeah, what does it actually cost you to run your household?

[00:29:07] Where is their wiggle? And what I wonder is if you might find that there is actually an extra 400 bucks that you could easily start to put into your retirement and you could start doing that tomorrow, long before you’re going to meet with this financial advisor, who’s going to give you that bigger clarity.

[00:29:22] I would be curious if this is actually in reach right away.

[00:29:27] Genevieve: Yeah, I think it could be, if I, you know, take the time to do it. And also just the other practical hurdle is because I have an IRA, how do I add money to it? Like on a practical basis.

[00:29:42] Linzy: And I would say, you know, like that is something that personally, if I have a task like that, that feels a little overwhelming, using like a Pomodoro timer, like doing a timer where you’re like: 20 minutes, I’m going to sit down and research how, for my investment platform that I have, how do I fund money: do I have to send it to my bank first and then use a bill payment?

[00:30:01] Is there a way that I can directly send money into that account? Take 20 minutes to do the research. You have a doctorate. I have no doubt this is research that is well within your ability. Cause it’s one of these things that can feel daunting, and so we can put it off,

[00:30:14] because it has this kind of confusion that can be associated with it. But I have a feeling you could get this information in about 10 minutes out of that 20 minute Pomodoro set.

[00:30:22] Genevieve: I think that’s a really good idea. I will say I have a doctorate in psychology. That doesn’t… I know nothing about computers or money or, you know, like I, I know a lot about one thing.

[00:30:33] Linzy: Yes. But what a doctorate in psychology proves is that you can do research,

[00:30:38] Genevieve: Yes.

[00:30:39] Linzy: And you can learn things. And this is what I’m emphasizing. Yes, you do not have a PhD in economics. I hear that. That’s also not required for what we’re talking about, right? And so I’m hearing another story here, which we will not get into today because we’re going to start wrapping up soon, which is the kind of I’m not a money person.

[00:30:54] I’m smart in this way, not that way. But what I suspect is that you are a great problem solver, that you know how to start a task and finish it because finishing a PhD is a massive undertaking. And I wonder if you bring a little bit more discipline, put a bit of that container that helps you get through your PhD, if you put I don’t know, 10 percent of that, 5 percent of that, around this, how much you would be able to learn.

[00:31:20] So I… can I give you a deadline? Can we put a deadline on this to make it happen? Right now is a Thursday when we’re having this conversation. Can I give you a deadline of starting to fund your retirement fund by next Friday? So you have one week to start. And my suggestion always, if possible, is to automate it.

[00:31:41] So to set up some automation. So can you have a recurring bill payment that comes into your bank account? Can you send money directly from your business bank account to that investment account? And if you find it a bit overwhelming, does your husband have tech skills, or do you have another friend or family member that could help?

[00:31:57] Genevieve: Yeah, I mean, I think I can probably figure it out. And if I can’t, I have a resource to make sure that I can figure out the answer.

[00:32:06] Linzy: And if we think forward to next Friday, how is it going to feel when you see your first 500 go into that retirement count and that inertia be broken?

[00:32:18] Genevieve: It’ll be a big relief because it feels like I know I need to do that. I just haven’t. And so it’ll be a big relief.

[00:32:26] Linzy: It’s going to be a relief and what is it going to show you about yourself when you see yourself taking that step by next Friday?

[00:32:32] Genevieve: That I can do hard things.

[00:32:36] Linzy: You can do hard things. And what else? Tell me more. What else does it show you about yourself?

[00:32:39] Genevieve: I think it would feel very much like I’ve completed the circle, you know, of the to-do items when I started my practice. That’s kind of the last big thing really to do that’s been on my list for three years.

[00:32:52] would be very nice to get that

[00:32:54] Linzy: Yes. Yeah. And what I’m hearing is you have figured out and built out a lot of aspects of your financial system. And this has been a missing piece that’s been hanging over your head. So there’s a completion there where you’ve kind of completed the set. You’ve got tax savings, you’re going to have your paycheck figured out, and you’re going to start to have what I hope will be automated retirement contributions.

[00:33:12] So then you’re seeing yourself as just taking care of business on a regular basis.

[00:33:18] Genevieve: And then I think what that’ll do is just free me up in those ways that I described that I enjoy about private practice where I don’t have to think about those things. I can just focus on, you know, I know they’re taken care of and I can just focus on the day to day and enjoying sort of the freedom and luxury that comes with that.

[00:33:35] Linzy: Exactly. It takes a lot of emotional energy to know that we’re not taking care of something, or that there’s a problem we need to figure out. And so, yeah, it’s going to give you back a lot of energy, I think. And then also, I think, I would encourage you to really lean into that liberty aspect of your practice.

[00:33:49] Think about, are there even more ways that you can give yourself this experience of liberty and kind of catch up with yourself to the fact that you have created a very different life for yourself than the life you had as a child. I’m sure your daughters’ lives look very different than your life looked as well.

[00:34:02] And you can really enjoy that and figure out how to really get the most out of that life that you’ve built and you’ve worked hard to build.

[00:34:10] Genevieve: Yes, I agree. I think so.

[00:34:12] Linzy: So Genevieve, coming to the end of our conversation today, what are you taking away?

[00:34:15] Genevieve: That I have work to do this weekend to figure out the practicalities of how to fund my retirement. And then just, I think, you know, looking at numbers and making sure everything fits in the way that it should. And then talking to my husband and setting up a time to talk to our financial planner to make sure that the big picture is being taken care of.

[00:34:38] Linzy: I love this list. I think you’re going to feel amazing when this list is complete.

[00:34:42] Genevieve: Yes, I agree. I think so, too. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[00:34:45] Linzy: Yeah. Thank you for coming on the podcast, Genevieve. I appreciate it.

[00:35:02] Linzy: My conversation with Genevieve brings me back to a point that I keep coming back to again and again because it’s so important and that is clarity, what clarity can do for us, especially if we have any kind of perfectionism which we talked about a little bit today in the episode of like really feeling like you need to understand something before you can do it, or if you get overwhelmed by not understanding something, if it creates confusion, that can stop you from taking

[00:35:29] any action at all. And when it comes to saving for retirement, or other big goals, any action is better than none, right? So any savings that you start to set aside is better than zero. And yet for so, so, so many of us, we get paralyzed in that spot that Genevieve was talking about where she wasn’t sure how much she needs.

[00:35:47] She doesn’t want to do it wrong. She wants to do it well. And so she’s just doing nothing. So I’m going to encourage you, therapist who is listening, if you notice yourself stuck in a place like that, whether it’s around retirement, or student loan repayment, or saving for a mat leave or any of these bigger financial projects.

[00:36:05] I encourage you to think about: how can I give myself clarity on this? And how can I start taking action on this today, even before I get total clarity, right? There’s kind of a both and here. Having that clarity really helps. Like in cases like Genevieve’s that we were just talking about where she’s going to have to make an appointment with her financial advisor, sit down with her numbers, her husband’s numbers, their goals.

[00:36:28] That’s a bit of a process. And chances are they’ll get that clarity within a couple months of really working with their financial advisor. But it’s best to start today. So I’m going to ask you to think about that for yourself. How do you both give yourself some clarity to help you know how to get towards the goals that you have, let yourself sit and be with numbers and think about what you want.

[00:36:48] And also how do you set yourself up to start taking action now towards those goals, even if it’s literally putting like 50 a month towards a goal to break inertia and see yourself taking action. Because inertia can be so powerful. And there’s parts of us that are always going to use that inertia to tell negative stories about ourselves.

[00:37:06] And inertia is hard to break, but once you break it, you can just keep going, and you can keep making contributions, and then you can use the system that you figured out of “Oh, okay. I make contributions through my bill payment feature in my bank. And I’ve been doing 50 bucks a month. And now that I’ve got more clarity, I’m going to up that to 250 a month, which I know is exactly what I need.”

[00:37:26] And now you’ve broken the inertia, you’ve created the system, and you’ve actually gotten the clarity to be making strategic investments. And you’re working towards the number that you actually want to see. So, lots there today. Hopefully you took something really helpful away from this episode. I really appreciate Genevieve coming on the podcast today.

[00:37:45] You can follow me on Instagram at Money Nuts and Bolts. And if you’re enjoying the podcast, as always, I really appreciate it if you will take literally two minutes to head over to Apple podcasts and leave me a review. It is the best way for other therapists and health practitioners to find the podcast and be part of these conversations.

[00:38:02] Thanks for listening today.

Picture of Hi, I'm Linzy

Hi, I'm Linzy

I’m a therapist in private practice, and a the creator of Money Skills for Therapists. I help therapists and health practitioners in private practice feel calm and in control of their finances.

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