Meet Jelisha Gatling

Jelisha [00:00:01] I think the willingness to pour that money out allows it to pour back into you. And like believing that it will come to you – and I don’t want to say come back, I don’t want to say it like that because that has, like a mentality, like I gave something that is mine. And it’s like, No, this money isn’t mine. It flows. I don’t know if that makes sense. Thinking about it from that perspective, there’s just so much ease. 

Linzy [00:00:29] Hello and welcome back to the podcast. Today’s episode is brought to you by the Waitlist for my course, Money Skills For Therapists. In 2022, we’re going to be raising the price of the course, like I hope all of you raise your fees from time to time, it’s an important part of having a healthy business. And this is your chance to get on the waitlist so you can get into the course at 2021 pricing. If you’ve been thinking about the course, if you’re curious about it, get on the waitlist. Then you will hear when we open the doors for the course and you can get in at that 2021 pricing, but start the course in 2022 so you don’t need to worry about starting over the holidays. You can start fresh in 2022, but lock in that 2021 price. You can check out the link in the show notes for the waitlist. So today’s episode is with Jelisha Gatling. Jelisha Gatling is a wonderful human. I need to start by saying that. I have known Jelisha for three years now. She was a graduate of Money Skills For Therapists back in 2018, and the progress that Jelisha has made the transformation in her relationship to money is incredible in that time. It is just a night to day transformation from where she was when I met her back in 2018, to where she is now, where she’s actually working with couples around money. She’s actually made this part of her clinical practice to really dig into money when she used to be super, super, super anxious about it when she started the course back in 2018. Today we dig into so many tips and tricks, and more than any episode I’ve done to date, this one is just so full of tips and tricks from Jelisha on how to shift your mindset around money. And most importantly, we really dig into how to actually enjoy money. We really debunk this myth that is so common that more money equals happiness. We don’t usually necessarily think about that myth so directly, but so often we carry this belief of, OK, well, when my practice brings in $50000, then I’m going to feel good and I’m going to enjoy life and it’s going to feel great and easy. OK, when my practice brings in $100000, then things are going to be easy. Then it’s all going to make sense. And Jelisha and I really dig into this story and debunk this story, and she gives some really great tips on ways to actually enjoy money now. Ways to shift your mindset, ways to just make money work for you emotionally and practically. So enjoy this episode with Jelisha Gatling. 

Linzy [00:03:14] So Jelisha. Welcome, thanks for being here. 

Jelisha [00:03:17] Thank you for having me, Linzy, I’m really excited. 

Linzy [00:03:20] I’m excited, too, because Jelisha, you and I have worked together in a couple of capacities over a few years, so I have seen a lot change for you in that time. 

Jelisha [00:03:31] Yes. 

Linzy [00:03:33] In a way that I think most people could only aspire to. So I’m really excited to kind of like, pick your brain and lay out some ideas for people to help them get where you are. And maybe just like very briefly, in terms of where you are, when I first met you, I think you had a lot of anxiety around money. 

Jelisha [00:03:51] Yeah, big understatement. Crippled by anxiety. 

Linzy [00:03:57] Yes. And now if you could just briefly summarize for me, like even just your business stuff, what’s happening in your business world now, just so people kind of know, know more about you before we dig into all your gems you have for us. 

Jelisha [00:04:11] I mean, now the anxiety is pretty much nonexistent. When it comes up, though, I’m able to really squash it quickly and notice those old stories coming up. But I’d say, like, what’s shifted is just no more anxiety, not even just around money, but around clients, and what’s going to happen, and if I can do it, just like there’s so much more confidence and I’ve been able to expand my business in ways that I wasn’t even thinking about. Opportunities have really opened up that I wouldn’t have even been able to see at that point. 

Linzy [00:04:46] Yeah. And now part of the work that we are doing is actually helping therapists around their businesses and money and mindset. And you do work with couples too, around money, as well. 

Jelisha [00:04:57] Yes. Yes, I do. It’s lovely. I actually just got certified in premarital counseling with this Prepare Enrich training certification, and I’ve been seeing a lot of premarital couples who haven’t talked about money, so I’ve been having so many good juicy conversations. It’s great to like, dig into that with them and really create a safe space and help them to understand that we have a relationship to money. There’s so many people, they’re like, What are you? I mean, at least me. I remember when I started looking into this, I was like, What do you mean, relationship with money? I don’t have any. So I don’t have a relationship.

Linzy [00:05:32] Yes. What relationship is there to have? Yeah. Oh, that sounds like such… like, juicy work. I think that’s the exact word I would have said. Like, oh, talking with couples who’ve never talked about money before. Yeah, that’s fun. So for you, Jelisha, what have you ditched along the way? Like, I know you’ve let go of a lot. What have you let go of that has helped you to have this less anxious relationship with money that you’re telling us about? 

Jelisha [00:05:56] I think the biggest thing is what I call goal posts like I had all of these milestones that I thought once I hit this, then I will feel more secure. I won’t feel anxious with money. So it went from, Oh, I’m in college, I’m not supposed to have money. You know, that’s what it is. You’ll have that when you get a job. And then I got the job and I still was really stressed and struggling. And then I got another job and then I went back to school and I was like, I got to get a real job. And then it was like, OK, once I got into private practice, it was like, OK, I’m going to struggle until I make $50K like that. Literally. I was like when I hit 50, I was up for that promotion. I was so excited and I was still like, struggling. And I’m like, How does- I don’t get it? So it just kept moving and I realized, Jelisha, there’s something else happening. There’s something that you’re missing here. And so I think like ditching those goalposts and realizing that it was so much deeper as far as like managing money, knowing what was happening. It wasn’t a matter of how much I made or how hard I worked because I thought if you worked super hard, working all the time, then the money will come and everything will be good. But that didn’t happen. And alongside that, I was able to let go of this withholding pattern that I had with money where I would have money, I would have a little bit more than I needed, and I would just hang on to it for dear life and feel like I couldn’t spend it on anything because I didn’t know when it was going to get taken away because of something unexpected happening. I just was… fearful to enjoy money when I had a little bit of surplus, so it was very conflicting. 

Linzy [00:07:33] Yeah, well, and something that I remember you talking about when we first worked together. This was so impactful to me that like, I use it now, I talk about this a lot. It’s like, is that idea that once you had a certain number, you’ll be fine, right? Like, you’ll figure it out. Like once you have a certain number, then money is going to be easy. But from what we were kind of chatting about a little bit before, it sounds like that story also came up again, even when you did have money skills, but in a different way. So can you tell me about that, like repetition of that story? Because I think this is a really interesting thing because this is so common, right, that we do have this idea of once once x, then y. Once X, then Y, right? And so tell me about… kind of the next level. Once you kind of got money skills, how did that story show up again? 

Jelisha [00:08:15] So it showed up again with every uplevel, essentially, and I think recognizing that that might come up can be helpful, but had these stars that would come up when I would think about, oh my gosh, when I hit six figures like, I will feel so secure and amazing and I’ll be able to do any and everything I want. And I hit six figures and it was underwhelming and I still like, struggle with spending things, even if I had the numbers in front of me and it that I had it like, there’s still that… those old stories that it’s going to be taken away. What if I don’t make this much in the next few months, like really putting pressure on myself and feeling like, what if this is taken away? What if this is a fluke? What if- my average was 10 K for like six months straight and I was like, This is going to get taken away at any point, I’m going to go back to those 3K, 2K months and I’m going to have to go back to bartending like those stories come up and I have to talk myself down. But it’s like, kind of recognizing that that was happening. It has allowed me to really relax and just like, normalize it when it comes up and then just like, shut it down. 

Linzy [00:09:22] So what is a different way to think about it then. If we’d stop thinking about money in terms of when this happens, then this. Whatever our stories are and whatever the number is. If we let go of that kind of “milestones” idea, what’s another way that you find is more helpful to think about money and how it works? 

Jelisha [00:09:36] You’re more susceptible to falling into that if you don’t have a specific thing that is meaningful to you that you will be able to do or buy. It could even be just not working weekends or not working evenings, whatever it might be. There has to be something attached to the number or to getting 10 more clients or to making one hundred and fifty thousand. Like what is going to be different for you that is meaningful. And so I think for me, with the 6K, I was like, I would just have more shit and have more fun. I don’t know. Like, it was very random. But I just… I thought that that would just give me this like, I don’t know, this feeling of I don’t want to say invincibility, but I just thought it was going to be magical. It was just vague. I didn’t really have anything tied to it. So I think, like focusing on what is it, that you want to experience, and getting as specific as possible, like super specific. Not even just I want to take two vacations. How many days do I want to be on vacation and how many days, before I leave and after, do I want off? Because that lights me up. When I can have time to decompress before and after, not working immediately upon coming back. That, ooh, that is juicy. So like, I can… like… roll with that kind of goal, but it’s more specific. And it’s not just like this idea. And I think a lot of people- I don’t know if you resonate with that, like when you were maybe below 100K, and you’d like, hit that you were like, were you expecting like confetti? 

Linzy [00:11:07] Yeah, yeah. Confetti. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think that it is underwhelming usually. I mean, but it depends on what you do with it, right? It’s underwhelming if, as you say, you’re just kind of vague about your idea of what it’s going to be like and you’re not specific, like what I’m hearing from you, I think, is make it special, make it specific, like have a specific reward that like really hits the spot for you. Because I think that we do live in this culture that gives us this idea that “money is” just makes you feel good by itself, just by virtue of having it. Like people who have a million dollars, feel so good every single day. That’s not true. It’s not true because nobody feels good every single day. So it’s like, what I’m hearing from you is with those milestones, if you want to make milestones special, attach something to it that actually makes it meaningful for you personally. 

Jelisha [00:11:54] Yeah. 

Linzy [00:11:54] Right. And so it could be, like you said, like this vacation that has a buffer on either side. Like that, for you, is especially delicious. Or for somebody, it could be like going to visit a family member in a specific place. Like really make it special because it’s not actually that special. 

Jelisha [00:12:09] It’s more like you are approaching it from the thing that you want. So rather than okay, when I get 100K, I’m going to do this, but I want to have two vacations that are seven days and I have maybe a week before off, or whatever it might be. And like, OK, how much more what I need to have or to save towards to do that thing working from that. But we’ll just grab these random milestones that society has told us, you know, when you hit this, you’ll make it. I’ll help you make six figures. And I mean, I said that myself working with therapists and I’ve been… like… kind of rethinking that because it’s, you know, and really try to talk about the things that I have been able to do upon making that much money more. 

Linzy [00:12:49] Yeah, because when the goalpost moves too, I think we’re also just like deferring, deferring our responsibility for being happy now. 

Jelisha [00:12:56] Ooh, yes. ooh. 

Linzy [00:12:58] Because I see that in the business world that I’m in now, which is kind of a little bit removed from the therapy world, like I’m now in the world of people where it’s like, well, you make six, so now you make seven. Now your goal is seven. It’s like, what? I just hit this goal. Now the goal is like that much bigger. And it’s like, that’s the new dream. When you hit seven, then life is easier. The reality is, when you have seven, this is what it actually looks like. You’ve a bunch of staff, you’ve bunch of responsibility. Now you have to make a bunch of money every month just to make sure everybody’s paid and everything’s running. And yes, you can bring home more money, but you also have a lot more work, right? And maybe you’re bringing home that more money. But if you’re not actually like building your life properly, you’re also more tired. You’re more stressed, right? Like, it’s not necessarily actually more happiness. It’s just more money. But yeah, I think that it is, in some ways, the story that we tell ourselves that means that we don’t have to worry about taking care of ourselves today. We’re going to do it later. I’m going to be happy later. I’m going to figure this out later. 

Jelisha [00:13:53] Totally. 

Linzy [00:13:54] And you were talking before we started recording. You were talking about this idea, instead of thinking about it in milestones, as like kind of this flow of money, money being something that flows, let’s… let’s dig into that. 

Jelisha [00:14:06] So when I’m talking about money flowing, literally, it might sound a little weird, but I think of myself as like a conduit for money. Not only do I have way less anxiety where I’m like hoarding money, but like I have a willingness and an enjoyment to spend money, to invest money. And even- I was even thinking about like, OK, with your course, Linzy, I invested money. I poured money into your business, but I was investing in myself at the same time. It was like this beautiful like mutuality, right? And you’re, I’m assuming, get joy out of helping people do this right? I think the willingness to pour that money out allows it to pour back into you and like believing that it will come to you. And I want to say, come back. I don’t want to say it like that because that has like a mentality like I gave something that is mine and it’s like, No, this money isn’t mine. It flows. I don’t know if that makes sense. 

Linzy [00:15:03] Totally. 

Jelisha [00:15:04] Thinking about it from that perspective, there’s just so much ease and it really gets rid of if you have any stories with money where you are afraid of not having enough or it getting taken away like I used to feel like something would always happen. My car. Like, there will always be something. I was in the hospital. Like just random stuff as soon as I got just like barely ahead. And just like ditching that has allowed this beautiful flow, which kind of speaks to the opportunities I was telling you about that have just like poured into my life. I’m like, not out here hustling. I’m really not. But I think it’s just like, you have to not only be willing to pour that out and to invest in yourself, but also to receive it. And a lot of times we’re like closing the doors to that. 

Linzy [00:15:51] Yeah, I mean, it does make me think of this thing that my own therapist has said to me before about like that money is energy, right? And so if you just think about it, as like money is almost like this temporary storage for that energy. Right. And so it’s like, we do this work and it’s work that we love and that’s its own reward, right? And so like, there’s this energy that we put in. Somebody else gives it back to us in the form of like money, which is also energy. But it’s like, what are we going to do with that to continue this positive flow of energy, right? It’s easy to like be like, I need to store that away and I can’t look at it and pretend it’s not there. And you know, saving is one thing if you have like this positive and it’s building something, but sometimes we can move into this hoarding and what you’re doing when you do that is you’re just like freezing that energy. Now that money’s not going to do anything for you. You’re just like taking this, this kind of gift that you are given and you’re leaving it to kind of stagnate. And that’s not always what saving is. Saving is great. But that can be the relationship that we have when we have more of, like a tightness or scarcity around it. 

Jelisha [00:16:48] Totally. 

Linzy [00:16:49] Right. So it sounds like more of this moving and and in that too, I think with the moving, what I love about that visual, Jelisha, is I do think it also addresses what you were just talking about of this fear of like something bad is going to happen because I’ve totally found myself thinking that too of like, what if I can’t work? And it’s like, Well, realistically, what is the scenario in which I can’t work? And even if I can’t work, eventually I’ll work again. I’ll have more energy. As long as I’m alive, I might just like, see two clients on the side, you know, when I’m not napping all day. But like like, I think that it also addresses the reality of like we’re people and we have energy and we do work that generates money. And like, as long as we’re alive, energy is going to to flow from us and we can use that to generate money, which then makes other things happen in our life. 

Jelisha [00:17:34] Totally. 

Linzy [00:17:35] Yeah, there’s just that flow of life and money is just part of that flow. 

Jelisha [00:17:39] Mm, yeah. 

Linzy [00:17:41] So thinking about this, I mean, this links to something else I wanted to talk to you about, which is about how we talk about money and the stories that we tell. So what is something that you’ve really noticed about those stories as you’ve done your money work over the years? What kind of advice would you give people about the way that we talk about money? 

Jelisha [00:17:58] I would say it sounds so simple, but like, watch your mouth. Really the language that you use is just as important as learning management skills and systems. Like it’s just as important. And it actually can get in the way of implementing and I think, sticking to those systems and then helping you. And so something as simple as I’m broke. I’m too broke to do that. I can’t afford it. Even if you really feel like you can’t, do not use that language. And so I mean, one of my favorite replacements for I can’t afford it is I’m prioritizing other things right now. I’m prioritizing something else, or that is not a priority right now. And that “right now” is important, too, because it’s just not right now. Not yet. It’s not like a closed door. And so just like realizing, I think I got this, maybe from Denise Duffield, one of her books when I started to really think about language and how I talked about myself and money and how all of my friends did too. And I was constantly hearing that, and I’m I was like in the creative world and have a lot of actors and creative friends and you know, where we all were kind of prideful about like, I’m a struggling artist and, you know, like, this is just supposed to be hard and whatever. But like we would constantly like, I’m broke, oh so broke, or we’re too broke to do that, can’t go here, we can’t go on vacation for more than two days and like just all these things and so like that language, you, the more you say it and the more you hear it, the more you believe it. And so you’ve got to do some reframing around that, and it’s something that you have to be conscious about at first. But it feels different to say, I’m not prioritizing this course right now. I’m prioritizing something else versus I can’t afford it. I’m too broke. 

Linzy [00:19:46] Well, and that’s such an empowered way to say it. To say, like, you know, this isn’t a priority for me right now. I’m putting my money somewhere else right now. Because the truth is you are, unless you literally don’t have a dollar. But like most of us in this field, you are putting your money somewhere, whether that’s that you’re putting towards buying good food or something for your kid or you’re saving money instead, you’re doing something with your money. And I think that that phrase acknowledges that. Rather than this just like disempowered kind of like, I don’t have it. Because if you really wanted it, you would have it. You’d find it. You’d take it from something else, or you’d take debt. 

Jelisha [00:20:24] Yeah. 

Linzy [00:20:24] But you know, it is also a reflection of what is important to you because we it is amazing what we can find money for. 

Jelisha [00:20:31] Oh my gosh. I was just thinking that. All the times my car broke down. 

Linzy [00:20:36] Yes,. 

Jelisha [00:20:36] I’m like all of this, I was able to figure it out. 

Linzy [00:20:39] Found the money? Yes. Whereas like I find, for me, you know, this is a struggle here for me where I know like humans are not logical, right? So this is the lovely thing about us is we make no sense an area where I find I’m selectively broke because that’s what it’s about, right? It’s being selectively broke. Or we’re having a hard time spending money is really what it is. Is I’ll notice like for me, like clothes, I’ll really kind of like drag my feet on, like replacing something like and I had a conversation with my partner, which then my friend was like, I just had the same conversation, where he was like, You need new underwear. Like, What are you doing? And I was like, Yeah, I know. For me, and this is my own stuff, right, there’s some sort of barrier to buying clothes. I’m always kind of trying to like, I’ll do it later. Kind of part of it is I hate clothes. I’m tall, I have big feet. There’s just things that make it hard to buy clothes. But also, it’s just that for some reason in my head, there’s this barrier that makes it feel like hard to prioritize that in my budget. And that’s what the reality is. I’m not prioritizing my budget because I’ll spend $600 a month on therapy. I can find that. That’s no question when I make my budget that I’m going to budget that six hundred. You know, a new pair of underwear, like a set of underwear is maybe like thirty five dollars, right? 

Jelisha [00:21:48] Oh, that’s such a great example. 

Linzy [00:21:50] And it’s totally illogical. Like, is there anything like that in your world that you can think of that is like hard to spend money on where you feel like you don’t have the money, but it would show up for something else. 

Jelisha [00:21:58] Honestly, I don’t want to sound like I’m copying you, but I sooo resonate with what you said about clothes. I hate shopping. I might go shopping like once a year and I’ll like, kind of do bulk. I just don’t enjoy it. I wear a lot of the same stuff. That’s something I definitely struggle with. I mean, jeans, I’ve gained weight like, I’ve gained weight and I’m just like, This is the new Jelisha. I need to buy new jeans and I haven’t done it. 

Linzy [00:22:20] I know. Personal shoppers. We need personal shoppers. I think that’s the solution here. So for people who are listening right now who are- maybe this, this is new to them talking about money, thinking about money. They know they want to work on money, but they don’t really know where to start. What would be like some advice that you would give them on, like a nice starting place to start to improve their relationship to money? 

Jelisha [00:22:44] Something that’s really simple and actually I think can be a fun little project is creating what I call passive reminders. And so basically, we’re trying to shift from I’m broke and struggling, making money is hard to how you want to feel and what you will be experiencing once you get that healthier relationship. And so when I say passive reminders, I mean, what’s on your screen of your phone, of your computer, on your desktop? I changed my to a beach and I just moved in to an apartment that is two blocks from the beach, everybody, and I’m freaking thrilled. Literally, I have dreamed of living by the beach, and I put that on my screensaver years ago when I started doing this work, so I had pictures of money like just gold on my phone screensaver. Just find some pictures that show what you want to have, what you will be able to experience, or pictures that when you look at them, it induces a really good feeling. And the beach has always done that for me. And so by seeing these things passively, it makes it seem more realistic and more possible. It’s kind of like what we were saying with the language. If you continue to say I’m broke I’m broke I’m broke, you probably, you know, like, that’s not helping you. And so this is a way of just kind of seeing that over time, all the time, it will become easier. Even like I used to feel a lot of shame, I’ll say, around like wanting to make six figures and just kind of it felt so unrealistic, first of all, but there’s something about- I remember I used to whisper it, like I wouldn’t want to say how much I was making, like even, you know, and I think you know that working with therapists, right? Not wanting to talk about money because it’s rude or whatever. And so there’s something about even like making your password, maybe six seven figures with some other stuff attached to it, whatever. But like, there’s something about like typing that out that it made it easier over time to say it and to own it and to, like, not apologize. I’m like, Yeah, Hell Yes, I want to make seven- however much- I want to make more money. I want to take more vacations. I want to work less, you know, whatever it is. And so like there’s something about setting up some kind of visuals passively where you just encounter them regularly. So we’re mostly interacting with our phone or computer, passwords, those are kind of the three things that I did, and it really made a difference in how I felt about the things that I wanted. But also it just seemed more realistic. I was like, Oh, this is possible alongside doing the other work, right? But it’s an easy start, I think, and it’s fun too. 

Linzy [00:25:21] Yeah, it sounds like it’s a way to kind of almost like subliminally get yourself used to wanting things, normalizing your desires. Like, like you said, I feel like so many therapists – I don’t feel like, I know so many therapists have shame around what they want because we’re helpers and we’re told to be helpers. And many of us are women and people of color. And like, we’ve been told that what we want is not important and we’re not supposed to want it. We’re supposed to help. Right. And you know, we’ve gotten into this profession because we have those traits. So what I’m hearing is just like creating an environment that just lets you really own and get used to what you want. It’s OK to want those things and normalizing what you want. And I love that and I love how specific that beach image is because for me, I immediately go to like what I would put on my phone. And it’s very different than yours because beaches, sand, sun – I’m gesturing to my my pale complexion right now, for those who are listening on the podcast, I’m not made for that shit, it doesn’t go well – but for me, it’s like a little cottage, like a cottage office in a backyard. In England, they have these like – I watch lots of gardening shows and people have these gorgeous little gardens. It’s like a whole yard that’s all flowers and then at the back, there’s their perfect little cabin where it’s like their little studio or their office. And like that for me, is it. I’ve wanted that for so long, and that’s the image of me on my phone, and I’m actually in the works of actually having that built. We’re like consulting with architects, like getting plans for, who’s going to do that for us. And that is my thing, right? So it’s so personal. And you know, you and I would take the same money and spend it differently because of what brings joy into our lives. I love how specific that suggestion is. Figure out what, how money can bring joy into your world, specifically. 

Jelisha [00:27:01] Yeah, I love that. Yes, yes, yes. 

Linzy [00:27:04] So thank you so much, Jelisha. I love talking with you, and I loved working with you as a student. I loved when you coached in my course and you’re always doing the coolest shit. So thank you so much for coming on and talking with me today. 

Jelisha [00:27:17] Thank you so much, Linzy. I had a ball. 

Linzy [00:27:20] And now we got to tell people where to find you. 

Jelisha [00:27:22] Yeah, if you’re – I’m assuming – therapists listening, you can find me on savingthesaver. Not savior. Saver. Dot com. Or @savingthesaver on Instagram. So that’s my handle. 

Linzy [00:27:34]  And for those who might be interested in getting more into your world, do you have any freebies out there or any offers coming that they can keep their eyes peeled for? 

Jelisha [00:27:43] Yeah, actually, if you go on my Instagram right now, I have a freebie I just created that has money leaks that you are probably overlooking in your business. There’s like six big ones that I keep seeing in a lot of the therapist practices that I work with, and I think it’s pretty valuable. And so check it out if you are wondering as you’re doing this work, it’s just nice to look at how you can be bringing more money in and receiving more money that isn’t just tied to getting more clients. So that’s what this freebie is about. 

Linzy [00:28:13] Awesome. So those links are in the show notes, and you can check them out to get more into Jelisha world, which I highly recommend you do, that’s a good life choice. And thanks so much again, Jelisha for coming in today. 

Jelisha [00:28:23] Thanks. 

Linzy [00:28:40] Jelisha shared so, so, so many helpful tips and tricks throughout this episode. I love this image that she has of money flowing and the ease that that brings, that it opens the possibilities of what are the ways that money can also flow to you and needing to be open to receive that flow, as well as being willing to spend money and let go of it. That’s such a beautiful, liberating image. Jelisha is so empowered about money. Something that I notice, reflecting on this episode, is how energizing it is to talk to her just listening to my own energy. I had so much fun recording this episode with her, and I will say that we did make a clothing pact after this episode, since we both identified that that is an area that we both struggle with spending and Jelisha nailed it. She completed the pact. She got all sorts of great clothes, and I kind of sort of nailed it. It’s still a work in progress. Humans, we are interesting creatures. There’s always more work to do around money and everything, really. If you would like more free money content about private practice specifically, check us out on Instagram. You can follow me @moneynutsandbolts. And if you are interested and really digging in and working on your relationship to money and also building a clear system to get money working for you in your private practice, that’s exactly what we do in Money Skills For Therapists. The link to the waitlist is in the show notes. We are going to be raising the price of the course in 2022. We’re raising our fee, like I suggest you all do from time to time. It’s part of a healthy business. So this is your chance to get in at 2021 pricing. You can buy the course now at 2021 pricing, but not start until 2022. So you don’t need to start over the holidays when things are always a little bit chaotic and a little out of routine. You can pay in 2021 if you decide to buy when we open the course doors, and start in 2022. So the way to hear about that is to get on our waitlist. The link is in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening today.